Epic Mystic Theurge: Why is it so weak?

[Legend]

I was looking at the epic mystic theurge class, and it looks to me like it's almost more beneficial just to alternate between levels of wizard and cleric... I'm not entirely clear why the Mystic Theurge's spell level progression goes from both classes each level to one class per level. Any insight on why they made this decision? Any reason why someone would want to be an epic Mystic Theurge and not just take levels of regular classes?

 

[mikebr99]

For the EPIC bonus feats every 6 levels.

Mike

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

The point was to keep people from abusing it - if it allowed full advancement in both caster levels it would eventually become way more powerful than a single-classed epic wizard or cleric. So they nerfed it so you wouldn't take it

So, don't take the epic PrC. (And don't make it more powerful either, or you'll just break it.)

Too bad WotC forgot all about balance when writing Complete Divine. It has the new Ur-Priest...

 

[Elephant]

Too bad WotC forgot all about balance when writing Complete Divine. It has the new Ur-Priest...

What's unbalanced about the Ur-Priest? I haven't had a chance to look at it.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

What's unbalanced about the Ur-Priest? I haven't had a chance to look at it.

You can cast 9th-level spells after only taking 10 levels of it - really messy since WotC has not passed a rule preventing the use of more than one prestige class.

 

[Humanophile]

You can cast 9th-level spells after only taking 10 levels of it - really messy since WotC has not passed a rule preventing the use of more than one prestige class.

I really don't see that. A class that allowed that, with the caveat that you could only enter it ~8th level (so you maxed it out at character level 17) would be fine.

Ur-priest looks a little wonky because you can meet the prereqs at around 5th-6th level, letting you in a level or two before you "should", but I don't see anything inherently wrong with nine levels of spells in a 10 level PrC.

 

[lupus]

Personally, I really don't like PRCs with their own spell progression that reach 9th level spells in 10 levels. Buncha other ones in CD do the same.

One objection: magic item prices. Suddenly, all items cost a little over half what they otherwise would. Level 9 spell, caster level 10... that's a lot cheaper than 9x17.

And aside from that, I just plain feel that it's an unnecessary rules alteration that sticks out like a sore thumb. That's not a rules objection, though, just a personal one. It annoys me every time I see it because it's simply not needed.

 

[ruleslawyer]

Anyway, back to the MT:I think PsiSeveredHead is on to something. The MT just doesn't work very well past 10th level. On the one hand, the MT is too good at full caster progression; a Clr3/Wiz3/MT 10/Acm4/MT 10, for instance, tails a Wiz30 only in terms of spell penetration, and could easily take three spell power high arcana to match that. On the other hand, epic feats confer a degree of power and specialization that is hard for even the most diverse character to match; a Wiz10/Lor20, for instance, would have a pretty big advantage over an MT even if the MT got full double spellcasting progression, as long as the MT had fewer epic feats, because the MT wouldn't be able to pull the Auto Quicken/Multispell nastiness as quickly, would have fewer truly high-level (Imp Spell Capacity) slots, and thus less raw power. So it's a hard call. IMHO, the MT should just cap at 10th level and leave the PC with the option of taking dedicated arcane or divine spellcasting PrCs.

 

[Vanye]

I don't understand why prestige classes are even statted out for epic levels in the first place.

 

[Spatula]

I don't understand why prestige classes are even statted out for epic levels in the first place.

The ELHB explains why there are epic progression for PrCs. But why shouldn't they be? PrCs are just classes that are harder to get into. And from a mechanics standpoint, class abilities that are tied to class level would not be worth much at epic levels if your class level was capped at 10.