Epic Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion

[J. Michael Neal]

I'm building an epic level character, and I want to give her a better version of Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion. It would produce a larger mansion and would also have grounds. I'm starting by trying to figure out how one would build the original spell using the epic spells rules. It would seem that it needs the Conjure seed, but would be unbelievably expensive. The actual MMM, much less my improved idea, would have a DC over 2,000 to get the proper size and duration for a 14th level wizard.

How do you model this?

Edit: I'm off by an order of magnitude. A 14th level wizard's MMM would have a spell DC over 20,000.

 

[Greenfield]

I don't know that I'd bother. MMM is a pretty nifty spell now.

In our last campaign we actually invented a *lower* level version of it.

The weaker form had all the same things w/regard to size, servants, amenities etc., but instead of making it an extra dimensional fortress, invisible to the outside world and impervious to attack or invasion, we had it create the place in the "real" world. The building would be a Force construct, of course, and would take whatever form you choose, within the size limitations.

So if you wanted a mansion, you got a mansion. Need a pavilion tent to fit the desert landscape? That's what it is.

We considered using it to create a "mansion" in the form of a boat or wagon, but that got the thumbs down all around the table.

This gets you your "grounds" and other exotic accessories like the ever elusive "window".

In terms of in-game usefulness? It restored the surprise night time encounter to the DM's arsenal, which expanded story and plot opportunities immensely.

 

[J. Michael Neal]

There are character reasons why it needs to be extradimensional. Also, how did you make it permanent?

Another question is, can you cast a MMM while you are already in one? That would take care of the size issue, and just leave permanency.

 

[Sekhmet]

Genesis creates a demiplane that continually expands to suit your needs.
Manual of the Planes has a class that has a Demiplane Seed which does the same thing as Genesis, except cheaper and non-epic.

 

[Sepulchrave II]

Making an epic spell is about presenting a convincing mechanical argument which the DM deems to fall within a reasonable margin of power for the character and his or her campaign; there is no single right way. Certain precedents are contained within official epic spells themselves.

FWIW, here's how I'd do it:

Look at Pestilence. It contains a precedent: a nonepic spell (contagion) which has no counterpart as an epic seed effect is appended as a "virtual seed" to the [Afflict] seed. [Afflict] might be viewed as a "carrier seed" for *[Contagion]. Its DC modifier (+21) is consistent with that of other seeds. Various factors are then applied to it.

You therefore need the [Conjure] seed, to which a magnificent mansion effect is appended; the basic parameters of magnificent mansion (as cast at 20th-level) become those upon which the final epic spell factors work. The *[Magnificent Mansion] seed should have a Spellcraft DC modifier of +27, as magnificent mansion itself is a 7th-level spell.

So far:

[Conjure] (+21): Acts as carrier; as description
*[Magnificent Mansion] (+27) Sets basic spell parameters as magnificent mansion at 20th-level (60 x 10-ft cubes; 75ft range; 40hrs duration)

= +48

Now employ factors.

Let's say you want to increase the area of a regular MMM by 2,000%. Normally, with the magnificent mansion you'd get 60 x 10-ft cubes. Now, you get 1260 x 10-ft cubes. This incurs a +80 Spellcraft DC modifier.

So far, the Spellcraft DC is +128. If you want a permanent version, you're looking at the x5 multiplier at this point. This is where it can get ugly.

If, instead you want to extend the spell's duration to 1 week (+300%), that's only another +6. If you're not in a hurry to cast it, you can extend casting time by 10 mins (-20 mitigation). You will have to burn XP or use a fancy component to get the DC lower than 114.



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