Entangle - Help Appreciated

[Olaf the Stout]

I am in a bit of a bind (pun intended) with the Entangle spell.

The description for the spell says that:

Grasses, weeds, bushes, and even trees wrap, twist, and entwine about creatures in the area or those that enter the area, holding them fast and causing them to become entangled. The creature can break free and move half its normal speed by using a full-round action to make a DC 20 Strength check or a DC 20 Escape Artist check. A creature that succeeds on a Reflex save is not entangled but can still move at only half speed through the area. Each round on your turn, the plants once again attempt to entangle all creatures that have avoided or escaped entanglement.

Emphasis mine.

The definition for entangled is:

The character is ensnared. Being entangled impedes movement, but does not entirely prevent it unless the bonds are anchored to an immobile object or tethered by an opposing force. An entangled creature moves at half speed, cannot run or charge, and takes a -2 penalty on all attack rolls and a -4 penalty to Dexterity. An entangled character who attempts to cast a spell must make a Concentration check (DC 15 + the spell’s level) or lose the spell.

Where I seem to get confused is the bit concerning entanglement. If a character makes his Reflex save he is not entangled but can only move at half-speed. If he fails his save he is entangled and moves at half-speed, cannot run or charge, etc.,

If the character makes his Strength or Escape Artist check in later rounds he is no longer entangled but he can only move half-speed with a full-round action (quarter speed?). This doesn't make sense to me as it seems like you can move faster when you are entangled compared to when you have finally broken free from entanglement.

Also, is there anything else that being caught in an Entangle spell affects, other than the penalties listed in the definition for entangle? By my understanding, if you fail your Reflex save you are entangled but you could still get your bow out and shoot at someone, albeit with a -4 to hit (-2 from the spell, -2 due to a -4 Dex from the spell).

Olaf the Stout

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Its easier to think of Entangle as two effects...

First: It makes the area difficult terrain, costing 2X movement, cannot run or charge.

Second, if you fail a REF save you become entangled by the immobile plants and are rooted to the spot...unable to move anywhere. As a Standard action (*) you can break free from the spell with a DC 20 Str or Escape Artist check. On the casters turn, you risk another entanglement.

And yes, sometimes the best option is to stay entangled and use ranged weaponry while you wait for the spell to expire.



(*), Yes, I know the text says full round action to break free and move half your speed.. silly semantics. It makes more sense to say Standard Action leaving the move portion to be used in movement or whatever else the player wants to do. End result can be the same but more options are available to the player.

(**) One option that is not addresses is clearing the vegitation. The spell relies on already present plant life, if you burn/cut/destroy the plant life then it would lose its ability to entangle. I personally HR that you need at least a light undergrowth for the spell to work in the first place, and provide a series of spells that improve on the mechanics {to include growing the light undergrowth, modifiers for character size, etc...}

(***) I really need to stick to the HR forum

Signed: //Poster C//

 

[RigaMortus2]

If you make your Reflex save, you are not entangled and can move at half speed.

If you failed your Reflex save, you are entangled. Since the plants are anchored to the ground, so it prevents you from moving (see the Entangled condition you quoted)

If you break free (DC 20 Strength check or a DC 20 Escape Artist check), you are no longer Entangled, but still can only move at half speed. This is a full-round action (which combine breaking free with half of a move).

Every round, if you are still within the area of effect, you have to make another Reflex save because the plants once again attempt to entangle you.

Does that answer your questions?

 

[Olaf the Stout]

Now I remember what I found most confusing about the spell vs. the entangle description.

The spell states that:

Grasses, weeds, bushes, and even trees wrap, twist, and entwine about creatures in the area or those that enter the area, holding them fast and causing them to become entangled.

Yet the entangled definition does not mention anything about a PC being held in place. The only part that talks about anyone being held in place is where the spell states that those in or entering the area are held fast.

For a first level spell to be able hold somone immobile for quite a long time (DC 20 Strength is quite difficult to make for many character classes and only the rogue would really invest in Escape Artist) seems quite powerful.

In the last session that we played, a 6th level Rogue/Ranger character spent 10+ rounds stuck in an Entangle spell (it was a very long and drawn out ranged combat). One of the fighters was also stuck for a few rounds. This was what made me think it was either a very strong first level spell or I wasn't playing it correctly.

Olaf the Stout

 

[Olaf the Stout]

I just found a line in the Entangled description that may explain if a character is held in place by the Entangle spell or not:

Being entangled impedes movement, but does not entirely prevent it unless the bonds are anchored to an immobile object or tethered by an opposing force.

I guess you could say that the grasses, weeds, bushes, or trees that wrap, twist, and entwine about creatures (as per the spell description) are an immobile object or are tethered by an opposing force.

Olaf the Stout

 

[Jhulae]

I just found a line in the Entangled description that may explain if a character is held in place by the Entangle spell or not:



I guess you could say that the grasses, weeds, bushes, or trees that wrap, twist, and entwine about creatures (as per the spell description) are an immobile object or are tethered by an opposing force.

Olaf the Stout

Well, the roots/plants/grasses/whatever are anchoring the character to the ground, which is most decidedly an immobile object for the characters.

 

[RigaMortus2]

I just found a line in the Entangled description that may explain if a character is held in place by the Entangle spell or not:

Olaf the Stout

Didn't I just point this out in the post above?

 

[Olaf the Stout]

Didn't I just point this out in the post above?

Why yes, yes you did! I knew that I should have learnt how to read sometime in the past 26 years!

Olaf the Stout

 

[RigaMortus2]

Why yes, yes you did! I knew that I should have learnt how to read sometime in the past 26 years!

Olaf the Stout

Well, in all fairness, you technically quoted it first in your original post, when you quoted the rules on the entangled condition.... But I digress...