D&D 5E Enlarge beyond Large

[Sunseeker]

So typically speaking, when one is using the Enlarge/Reduce spell, a creature is going to move between Small-Medium-Large and back again. For the most part, the damage increase for such a size change is fine (1d4), but it seems a little pathetic when something Large moves up to Huge, or something Huge moves up to Gargantuan. We no longer have "weapon sizes" so when the game states that the weapons "grow to the new size" it doesn't really mean anything as there's no such thing as a "small" or "large" Longsword anymore. I mean consider using Enlarge on even a horse, or to be silly, a T-Rex. Who doesn't want a Huge horse or a gargantuan T-rex?

Further, there's an unclear question of if the bonus only applies to "weapons". ex: would a Monk's unarmed strikes with fists even count? Claw and bite attacks? It stands to reason that larger fists, claws or teeth would do larger damage, but the wording of the spell begs the question of if it only applies to weapons and nothing else. Personally I find that kind of sad, compared to the hilarious broken-ness of previous editions enlarge effects, which may have been too much, but still it seems like overkill.

So I have some thoughts: first simply removing the line about "weapons" bigger horse hooves and bigger fists hurt more just like bigger swords.
Second: +1d4 for each size above large. So a Huge horse would do +2d4 while a Gargantuan T-Rex would do +3d4.

So, thoughts?

**As an aside: what happened to "Colossal"? Is that the new (titan) sub-category?

 

[MerricB]

Yes, it's a little unclear. Given that the monster manual describes all claw and bite attacks as "Weapon Attacks" (as opposed to Spell Attacks), I say they do extra damage.

However, I would not increase damage further. The Large and Huge creatures already do extra damage.

Cheers!

 

[Jaelommiss]

"Big monsters typically wield oversized weapons that deal extra dice of damage on a hit. Double the weapon dice if the creature is Large, triple the weapon dice if it's Huge, and quadruple the weapon dice if it's Gargantuan" -- DMG, 278

That's from the section on creating monsters. I've found it works better than +1d4 for my table.

 

[Sunseeker]

"Big monsters typically wield oversized weapons that deal extra dice of damage on a hit. Double the weapon dice if the creature is Large, triple the weapon dice if it's Huge, and quadruple the weapon dice if it's Gargantuan" -- DMG, 278

That's from the section on creating monsters. I've found it works better than +1d4 for my table.

Interesting, I have to admit I had not read that page, I do like it a lot more than the normal Enlarge/Reduce rules, it is weird that this math is not consistent across creatures with incremental stat blocks (Dragon damage die mostly remains constant regardless of size).

 

[Sword of Spirit]

Yeah, dragon attacks have their own things going on. It's extremely consistent for the monsters that use manufactured weapons though.

 

[miniaturehoarder]

So typically speaking, when one is using the Enlarge/Reduce spell, a creature is going to move between Small-Medium-Large and back again. For the most part, the damage increase for such a size change is fine (1d4), but it seems a little pathetic when something Large moves up to Huge, or something Huge moves up to Gargantuan.

So, thoughts?

Maybe make those changes a higher level spell. The effects of the Enlarge spell were set the way they were to keep the spell balanced with other spells, not to fully emulate the effects of being a whole size class larger. An Enlarged greatsword wielder most certainly gets screwed out of as much damage as an En'huged warhorse.

"Big monsters typically wield oversized weapons that deal extra dice of damage on a hit. Double the weapon dice if the creature is Large, triple the weapon dice if it's Huge, and quadruple the weapon dice if it's Gargantuan" -- DMG, 278

That's from the section on creating monsters. I've found it works better than +1d4 for my table.

If changing it worked for your table, thats great, but I'd say that text shows designer intent to make sure the Enlarge spell didn't add too much damage as a low level buff.

 

[Sunseeker]

Maybe make those changes a higher level spell. The effects of the Enlarge spell were set the way they were to keep the spell balanced with other spells, not to fully emulate the effects of being a whole size class larger. An Enlarged greatsword wielder most certainly gets screwed out of as much damage as an En'huged warhorse.

I thought about that. Need to use a 3rd level spell slot to go from large to huge, 4th to go from huge to gargantuan and gain increased damage benefits from it.

If changing it worked for your table, thats great, but I'd say that text shows designer intent to make sure the Enlarge spell didn't add too much damage as a low level buff.

Enlarge was WAY OP in previous editions, but the current enlarge seems to be heavy handed in how much it was nerfed.

 

[spinozajack]

Maybe make those changes a higher level spell. The effects of the Enlarge spell were set the way they were to keep the spell balanced with other spells, not to fully emulate the effects of being a whole size class larger. An Enlarged greatsword wielder most certainly gets screwed out of as much damage as an En'huged warhorse.

If changing it worked for your table, thats great, but I'd say that text shows designer intent to make sure the Enlarge spell didn't add too much damage as a low level buff.

Which is poor game design. Monster weapons should use the same rules as similar sized weapons in the hands of PCs.

+1d4 damage is paltry for an Enlarge spell. If I become Large, I expect to do what a Large creature does.

They should have made consistent rules for oversized weapons, then let players use those when they become enlarged, and balance Enlarge to the appropriate spell level and duration. They could have made oversized weapons extremely heavy, and the Enlarge spell only affects your armor and objects you wear, not your weapons. So you would have to carry or find some oversized weapons.

It's a second level concentration spell that gives 1d4 damage bonus for up to 1 minute. Pretty darn terrible. Having it be concentration alone would be enough to prevent abuse, on top of the fact that it's a second level spell.

I don't see it getting used very often in play. An option that isn't worth taking or using is not really a good option, or even an option at all, given how irrational it would be to spend a spell slot for a puny +2.5 damage per attack.

I especially don't like one set of rules for PCs and one for monsters. An enlarged half-orc should be doing similar damage on a hit to a hobgoblin.

 

[miniaturehoarder]

Which is poor game design. Monster weapons should use the same rules as similar sized weapons in the hands of PCs.

+1d4 damage is paltry for an Enlarge spell. If I become Large, I expect to do what a Large creature does.

A creature Enlarged by the spell gets the same effect whether it's a PC or NPC. 3E and 4E already showed the folly of letting PCs jump weapon die sized with simple buffs as [MENTION=93444]shidaku[/MENTION] points out.

 

[doctorhook]

Which is poor game design. Monster weapons should use the same rules as similar sized weapons in the hands of PCs.

Sorry bud, but that's hyperbole. (On the internet, no less? Shocking.)

I don't see it getting used very often in play. An option that isn't worth taking or using is not really a good option, or even an option at all, given how irrational it would be to spend a spell slot for a puny +2.5 damage per attack.

I can't say I've seen enlarge get much use either, but my players have discovered that reduce is a hell of a debuff when paired with an effect that requires the target to make strength saves or checks.