Encounter and daily Powers

[ExploderWizard]

Forked from: Is 4E doing it for you?

Thats because most spells prior to 3E didn't miss. They might be saved against but at least they hit. Non-magical abilities missing still sucked but at least you could try again without having to wait for the next fight.

One of the biggest complaints about the whole 4E system both from those that like it and those who don't is the suckfest that happens when a daily or encounter power misses. In our sessions, combats go on for many rounds and take a long time. Per encounter can sometimes mean per game session and per day possibly 2 or 3 sessions unless a rest is taken just to "reset" the power. As I was posting in the other thread I thought that there might be a way to avoid all that misery.

I like the concept of action points but thier recharge mechanic is just as convoluted and artificial as encounter powers IMHO and they don't help with using a cool ability more than once per fight. What if the power system cooldowns were replaced with an action point system. There would still be a cooldown system to help keep powerful abilities from being spammed every round.

Every class would get basic attacks that didn't cost any action points. All powers would have an action point cost. The cost would be relative to the strength of the power. The action points would actually regenerate during the fight while not being used. For example a character would regenerate X number of action points during any round that none were spent. So a fighter could use an "encounter" level power with a chance to use it again if the fight went on long enough. The numbers would have to be crunched and tested for balance but at least the old " well I blew it for this fight" could be helped a bit. Any thoughts?

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Disadvantage is always that you don't keep variety. People like to "spam" their most useful power. Part of the current balance of the power probably is also that you can use each only once per encounter (barring special exceptions, as usual. )
But it is possible to create such systems, certainly.

One idea for keeping variety: Characters have access to ALL (or, say, 2-3 per level?) powers on their list. But they can use each only once per combat, even if they have action points to spend.

 

[Grimstaff]

I'm experimenting with making "Action Point" an Encounter Power every PC gets.

With an action point, you get a bonus standard, move, or minor action, or can reroll a miss on an encounter or daily power. Each character gets one action point to spend per encounter.

The houserule is still in its infancy, but thats how its shaping up so far.

 

[Treebore]

Our group thinks just having all "Once per..." powers only used upon successful hits. No extra book keeping, no points to keep track of, etc... and you probably keep closest to the "balance" the designers saw a need for.

 

[Obryn]

Completely gamist, arbitrary houserule suggestion:

In a single combat, for every missed Daily or Encounter power which has no effect whatsoever on a Miss (that is, no Miss or Effect line), you get a Recharge point. Spend 2 or 3 to recharge an Encounter power. Take a Standard action to get 1 Recharge point.

Also, Stalker0 has a more mechanically complex but nicely cinematic recharge system under the Houserules section.

-O

 

[garyh]

Our group thinks just having all "Once per..." powers only used upon successful hits. No extra book keeping, no points to keep track of, etc... and you probably keep closest to the "balance" the designers saw a need for.

This negates the benefit of the fighters reliable powers, as it makes everyone's powers reliable. So unless you give some kind of bonus to fighters on their reliable powers, this lowers the relative power of fighters.

 

[MerricB]

Note that most dailies have an effect even if they miss. Or they're reliable.

Cheers!

 

[FireLance]

I'm of the view that part of the challenge of using encounter or daily powers is setting them up so that you maximize your chances of a hit, e.g. moving so that you have combat advantage, or waiting until your cleric ally hits with lance of faith or righteous brand to get a power bonus on your attack rolls, or using an action point if you have Action Surge, or you have a tactical warlord in the party.

Anyway, I like Obryn's idea of a recharge mechanic for missed powers, but I'd run it as follows:

1. The first time in each encounter that you miss with all your attack rolls for a non-reliable encounter or daily power, you gain the ability to recharge your encounter powers by rolling a d6 at the start of your subsequent turns.

2. Your recharge range is initially . Each time that you miss with alll your attack rolls for a non-reliable encounter or daily power, you increase your recharge range by one, e.g. from to .

3. When you roll a number in your recharge range on your recharge die, you may regain an expended encounter power*, and you reduce your recharge range by one, e.g. from to . If your recharge range was already , you lose the ability to recharge powers until you miss with all your attack rolls for a non-reliable encounter or daily power again, in which case your recharge range becomes .

* Optional rule: If you don't mind the additional tracking, you must regain a missed encounter power before you regain any other expended encounter powers. Effectively, this means that you will only be able to regain an encounter power that hit if you miss with a daily power, and even so, you must regain all the encounter powers that you missed with first.​

 

[Xath]

Moved to House Rules.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

This negates the benefit of the fighters reliable powers, as it makes everyone's powers reliable. So unless you give some kind of bonus to fighters on their reliable powers, this lowers the relative power of fighters.

Of course you'd want to compensate for that. I suppose one compensation might be that powers with the Reliable keyword are rerolled on a miss (only one reroll per power - reliable powers are expended if you hit just once)

I like the recharge idea and want to overcomplicate expand on it:

How about this:
o Each miss with an encounter or daily improves your recharge rate by one (starting with no chance to recharge)
o Each hit with an encounter or daily power reduces your recharge rate by one.
o You can only recharge if you use an at-will power or basic attack, or spend a standard action for it (if for some reasons, you don't want to attack)
o if you successfully recharge, the rate is set back to "7", as in no recharge possible.

So, if you miss with your first encounter power, you have a Recharge value of 6. If you miss with your second, you have a Recharge value of 5. If you hit with your third, it goes up to 6 again. If you now make an at-will attack, roll 1d6. On a 6, you recharge one encounter power (I suggest: Lowest level first, to avoid people always trying to get the better one)

You might want to rule that dailies improve your recharge rate by 2 instead of 1 point.

"Simulation" explanation: Even if you miss with encounters or dailies, you're still trying to move your enemy into a worse position, but you need a final step to set up your enemy for another strike - and that's that basic/at-will attack.
For spells - every-time you cast a powerful spell, you gather residual magical energies. But you need to weave the energy together, and only an at-will power leaves you with enough focus to "reassemble" a spell.

Gamist View: This introduces a certain strategy in handling powers. You might want to try recharging early, to get your best encounter power back, or you might want to simply wait and have a guaranteed recharge once you've used all your powers.