Empowered Mirror Image

[Patlin]

A normal mirror image spell provide 1d4+(1 per 3 levels) images, to a maximum of 8. At 18 to 20th level, that would be 1d4+6 (7 to 10) images , maximum 8.

If you empower mirror image as an 18th level caster, it would seem to provide 10 to 15 images, but the maximum of 8 would remain unchanged. Not very worthwhile.

Am I doing this right, or is there some reason empower would effect the maximum number?

 

[Borlon]

I'd impose the limit of 8 before multiplying by 1.5, myself.

 

[Crothian]

unless you can somehow get rid of the max number, it's going to be there and limit the spell

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Agreed with Crothian.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Am I doing this right, or is there some reason empower would effect the maximum number?

It's similar to the way that Widen Spell increases the area of a spell, but not its range.

In the case of a Fireball, that means that you can place a 40' radius ball somewhere within Long range. No problem.

In the case of an Antimagic Field, you create a 20' radius emanation centred on you... but any portion of the spell's area that extends beyond 10' from you is wasted.

A Widened Fireball makes a big Fireball. A Widened AMF makes an AMF exactly as large as a non-widened AMF.

Sometimes Metamagic increases part of a spell beyond what the spell itself allows. Metamagic's better for some spells than others.

-Hyp.

 

[Stalker0]

Plenty of spells says, 1d6, maximum 10d6...but we allow empower to work on those just fine even though I can do more than 60 damage with this feat, which isn't allowed by the maximum of 10d6.

I would say the maximum applies before the feat is used.

 

[Nonlethal Force]

I would say a spells max is a spells max. Metamagic cannot go beyond the max. Thus, in the OP's case ... the metamagic feat is useful for a while, but at a certain level the metamagic feat isn't good anymore.

Of course, words from an errata could make me eat my own words!

 

[Hypersmurf]

Plenty of spells says, 1d6, maximum 10d6...but we allow empower to work on those just fine even though I can do more than 60 damage with this feat, which isn't allowed by the maximum of 10d6.

You're rolling 10d6, and getting a result of 90. That's not prohibited by the cap on the number of dice.

You're not rolling more than ten d6, which would be disallowed.

If the spell said "The spell deals 1d6/level damage (maximum 10d6). The damage dealt cannot exceed 60." ... then Empower would make it much easier to deal 60 damage, but it wouldn't allow you to deal 61.

But without the cap on the damage itself (only on the number of dice), there's nothing to prevent Empower bringing the total damage dealt by those 10d6 above 60.

-Hyp.

 

[Krelios]

When I first started reading this thread I thought, "No, Empower will work and allow you to exceed the caps of the normal spell--that's the point of the feat." But, having read Hypersmurf's posts, I've changed my mind. I think his interpretation is correct.

 

[TheGogmagog]

You're rolling 10d6, and getting a result of 90. That's not prohibited by the cap on the number of dice.

You're not rolling more than ten d6, which would be disallowed.

If the spell said "The spell deals 1d6/level damage (maximum 10d6). The damage dealt cannot exceed 60." ... then Empower would make it much easier to deal 60 damage, but it wouldn't allow you to deal 61.

But without the cap on the damage itself (only on the number of dice), there's nothing to prevent Empower bringing the total damage dealt by those 10d6 above 60.

-Hyp.

So you are implying that a metamagic that adds 1d6 (sanctify spell maybe) or even doubles the d6 (energy admixture) max out at 10d6 when applied to a fireball? They don't explicitly modify the 10d6 max. I'll stick with the metamagic being applied to the base spell, the base spell has the maximum, the metamagic applies to that maximum.