Effective Gnome Artificer?
- Thread starter Metallian
- Start date
Yes, it is an underpowered PrC. Plus the prerequisites are rather draconian, including so many skill ranks that you have to assign almost *all* your skill points to prereqs if you want to enter the PrC at the earliest possible level.
The Gnome Artificer is mainly a support character. His devices - which is essentially the only benefit the PrC gets - can be used by anyone in the party. And often they will be even more useful to the *other* party members, because they're bulky and heavy (and the Small, STR -2 Gnome has serious encumbrance issues!) If you insist on the Gnome Artificer, see if you can get one as a cohort, and play a Forsaker yourself!
For more powerful variants, have a look at Powerclasses: Artificer and Quinessential Gnome by Mongoose, or the technomancer PrC in AEG's "Magic" book.
The Gnome Artificer is mainly a support character. His devices - which is essentially the only benefit the PrC gets - can be used by anyone in the party. And often they will be even more useful to the *other* party members, because they're bulky and heavy (and the Small, STR -2 Gnome has serious encumbrance issues!) If you insist on the Gnome Artificer, see if you can get one as a cohort, and play a Forsaker yourself!
For more powerful variants, have a look at Powerclasses: Artificer and Quinessential Gnome by Mongoose, or the technomancer PrC in AEG's "Magic" book.
Metallian
First Post
Conaill said:Yes, it is an underpowered PrC. Plus the prerequisites are rather draconian, including so many skill ranks that you have to assign almost *all* your skill points to prereqs if you want to enter the PrC at the earliest possible level.
The Gnome Artificer is mainly a support character. His devices - which is essentially the only benefit the PrC gets - can be used by anyone in the party. And often they will be even more useful to the *other* party members, because they're bulky and heavy (and the Small, STR -2 Gnome has serious encumbrance issues!) If you insist on the Gnome Artificer, see if you can get one as a cohort, and play a Forsaker yourself!
Well, a support character is what this party needs...we already have 2 front-line fighters, 1 Cleric (the front-line fighters are a Paladin and a Barbarian/Cleric so we've got oddles of divine stuff), a sneaky Psionicist, a sneaky Rogue/Fighter type, and a Wizard. So I was thinking that a Gnome Bard (Arcane spells + Lots of Skill Points) would make a good support character with loads of inexpensive equipment.
Is the PrC just plain weak, or is it something that could be fixed by loosening the prerequisites? (Dropping the Lightning Reflexes requirement and some of the excessive skill expenditures)
Conaill said:
I will recommend this to the player, as long as you don't think those classes go too far in the other direction.
The Metallian
I'd suggest being flexible on the skill requirements (allowing him to substitute some other skills where it makes sense), and possibly eliminating the spellcasting requirement. But messing with the requirements alone isn't going to "fix" this PrC.Metallian said:
What it *really* needs is some extra benefit that is specifically useful for the Artificer himself, instead of to the entire party. Extra utility feats like the rapid crafting feat from the other thread, or one that allows him to carry more gear, or to retrieve items from a Haversack as a free action (sigh) are a start, but don't really add any more "oomph" to the class. Allowing him to craft mechanical creatures (as in Magic or Powerclasses: Artificer) might be a nice option.
If I remember correctly (been a while since I looked at it), AEG's Technomancer was fairly balanced. It's essentially based on the Druid class, but with an Int-based spell list and mechanical creatures instead of animal companions. Powerclasses: Artificer seems overpowered, but it's cheap and simple and you can tone down some of his abilities if you feel they are getting out of hand. (I believe both of these are actually base classes rather than PrCs, but I could be wrong about the technomancer.) Quintessential Gnome I haven't made up my mind about yet, but it gets quite complicated if you want to use some of the more advanced construction rules.
Garboshnik
First Post
The Gnomish Artificer seems almost unplayable to me, I'd try to do a total reworking of the class mechanics.
Metallian
First Post
Conaill said:
What if I let him create modern firearm equivalents that required maintenance that only a dedicated Alchemist/Weaponsmith could hope to deal with? (DC 25 Craft (Alchemy) and DC 25 Craft (Weaponsmithing) checks every day...a 7th-level Gnome with a high Int could take 10 and succeed every day.)
How many of these other classes you mention require XP expenditures to make items? I think he wants to avoid spending XP if possible.
What if I expanded the Artificer device list to include more spell effects?
The Metallian
Modern firearms, hm? Now *that* could be overpowered. I'm not sure how well standard D&D can deal with guns. If you really want to do this, I believe d20 Modern has firearms rules.Metallian said:
I would probably advise against this, because it seems so out of balance with the rest of the Artificer powers. Keep in mind that the beginning artificer device powers are essentially 0th and 1st level spells. A 10d6 grenade launcher or even a 2d6 gun seem well outside of that power level. (but see below)
I'd have to look it up. That answer may have to wait until after the weekend...
Definitely! Check the 3.5 spell levels as well, because some may have changed. And you also may want to *remove* some of the odder ones in the list, such as mage hand or detect undead.
If you do add to the device list, here's your chance to include guns in a balanced way: invent a new "virtual" spell that acts as a bullet. Just make sure its damage output etc. is balanced with the spell level (there's a table somewhere with guidelines on what arcane and divine spells of various levels can be capable of, but I can't find it right now).
Keep in mind there's also an errata clarifying that the Artificer can research new device powers, using the same mechanism as for researching new spells (which makes the 7th level "prototype" ability rather pointless!)
Metallian
First Post
Conaill said:
Detect Undead? Just last night we were ooing and aahing over the possibility of building a PKE Meter for D&D!
Conaill said:
Making it a spell kind of renders a gun pretty poor as a weapon, however...no iterative attacks, no Point Blank Shot, no Sneak Attack (unless it's a ray), etc.
I was thinking if he had Revolvers, he could own a 2d6 ranged weapon. Maybe if I made him pay for them as if they were Artificer devices...
The Metallian
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