Dual Wield Hand Crossbows...

[PathfinderCharon]

It's a fun idea, using the new pathfinder core rules and advanced players guide only, is it possible?

You can get pretty much everything in regards to reloading down to a free action. The problem seems to be the fact that both your hands are full of hand crossbow, and that would be a problem when reloading.

Perhaps work out a repeating hand crossbow with the DM...

At this point using a level 13 fighter, feats are...

Exo Weap Prof: Hand X-Bow
Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Weapon Focus: Hand X-Bow
Weapon Spec: Hand X-Bow
Deadly Aim
Rapid Fire
Rapid Reload
G. Weapon Focus: Hand X-Bow
G. Weapon Spec: Hand X-Bow
Two Weapon Fighting
Imp Two Weapon Fighting
G. Two Weapon Fighting
Crossbow Mastery

Using the Crossbowman variant in the adv players guide...

Basically the goal is to, in the right condition, use rapid fire while dual wielding hand xbows, effectively yielding 8 total shots at level 13 (with a lot of negatives to attack) utilizing deadly aim blah blah blah...

You eventually get something like 18/18/18/18/13/13/8/8 with a damage of about 1D4+23 or something like that.

I think the only thing stopping that is the whole "can't reload while hand is holding other hand crossbow". Just curious what people think and so forth

 

[Kaisoku]

Quickdraw and Gloves of Storing?

Gloves of storing can shrink it down to keep your hand free, and it's a free action to store or retrieve it.
The only problem being that you can only have one at a time (for some reason).

So have on ready for shrinking, and the other can be accessed by quickdrawing. Shame there's no "quick sheathing".

You can go two full rounds of full attacks before you'll need to pick up a dropped hand crossbow:

1st round, fire all shots with one crossbow and then shrink it, then quickdraw the other handcrossbow and fire all it's shots.
2nd round, fire all shots with that crossbow in hand and then drop it, and retrieve the shrunken one to fire all it's shots.
3rd round, move action to pick up the dropped handcrossbow.

If only there was a way to have it return (enchant it with the returning enhancement, but as a thrown weapon?). Something to ask your DM.

.
Personally, I'm fine with just having a flat +gp enhancement to make a crossbow magically create normal arrows and cock them for you.. so it can be done with one hand.
Not sure on how much that would cost (probably expensive, since it's bypassing the need of the feats).

 

[Hand of Evil]

Is there not a mutt-round hand crossbow listed somewhere in some 3.5 book, gives two shots. Also sure you could have a magical weapon

 

[milo]

Tome of Secrets

Has a magical property for flintlocks that is a +2, weapon never needs to be reloaded and can be fired up to the users full number of attacks each round, Everloaded is the name of the property. I am sure it should actually be cheaper for a crossbow(less loading time and cheaper ammo), but for game purposes if your DM or you already have the book you have something to go with that already exists.

 

[Kvantum]

Magic Item Compendium - Quickloading Weapon Property (+1 equivalent). Extradimensional space in the weapon will hold up to 50 bolts so you can reload as a free action.

 

[Kaisoku]

Heh, between that and the shrink item effect of a glove of storing, you can totally go all Ultraviolet style of hand-crossbow.

 

[DogBackward]

Keep in mind, hand-crossbows are ranged weapons, and therefore don't fall into the light/one-handed/two-handed categories. So you don't get the reduced penalties for fighting with a light weapon in the off-hand. It's a lot of attacks, but good luck hitting with any of them...

 

[Kaisoku]

Actually, the crossbows have rules for that:

Crossbow, Hand: You can draw a hand crossbow back by hand. Loading a hand crossbow is a move action that provokes attacks of opportunity.
You can shoot, but not load, a hand crossbow with one hand at no penalty. You can shoot a hand crossbow with each hand, but you take a penalty on attack rolls as if attacking with two light weapons.

Further, the light crossbow counts as a light weapon, and heavy crossbow counts as a one-handed weapon, for purposes of two weapon fighting penalties. Repeating crossbows can be fired once like this too (light or heavy), but the reloading/refiring bit is a lever and requires a second hand.

 

[Cor_Malek]

Hehe, while with a lot of experience with crossbows I can hardly imagine anyone doing this, but the visual ticked me off xD And it is... um... doable*.

[disclaimer: as with 90% of my posts regarding rules, it's concerned with believability and practical part of the problem, not rule-lawyering. So it can be in line with/ irrelevant / contrary to official rules.]

You need to realize why you cannot load a crossbow with one had before you try to tackle the problem. The string of bow is elastic, and it stretches in an uneven way if you don't pull it right. It's common to mark your string in the middle, right where the bolt goes, so that you can be sure you loaded it right. It can be hard for a newbie to load a crossbow right with a lever, much less with his hands, which can be a problem even on a tournament level (you mustn't dry-fire any kind of bow).
Even if you position the marker in right spot after pulling it with one hand, the string itself will tend to pull to one side.

- But what if I positioned my hand directly above the body of crossbow?
Well you're onto something, but your fingers would have to be dead-even, and, well, absurdly strong.
- Um, so can't I just fabricate, like, a small two-finger, iron claw, and pull that?
You sure can. Why not base it on medieval loading hooks?

Said hooks, next to the trigger, nut and stirrup, are the most common part of crossbows that gets unearthed (well, way after bolt heads, obviously). They've been widely used, and are very handy indeed. They make loading crossbow a piss for infantry, and make it possible and relatively easy (especially compared to firing it ) for cavalry, who were able to pull it with only one hand. And it wasn't even placed on the hook, but rather holding the body.
You put your foot into stirrup, you bend, and place the hook on string. The hook is attached to your belt. Now you just straighten, and presto! A loaded crossbow! Let's kill something! English name for it, is apparently pulley mechanism. Kinda self-explanatory, fits DnD right ;-P
A person of average strength can load by hand (or with this appliance) a crossbow of pull equal to his weight. I've once seen a ~90kg bloke load a 120 kg crossbow after X trials, but it was a feat that's taken quite a while. I guess he just rolled a natural 20 . If you want to load a heavier crossbow, you need some kind of lever.

- Damn, too bad there weren't any mechanisms that could be operated with one hand... Or were there?
You sure know me, cursive. But while it could be operated with one hand, I can hardly picture using two mechanisms like that simultaneously. Maybe you could figure something out . (Clearer)

Thing to remember of course is that it would still be inaccurate, because you wouldn't be able to place your body symmetrically (as mentioned, loading it can be a bitch). The whole idea relies on heavy usage of Rule of Cool anyway, so it's not that much of a problem; but if the system needs tuning down, my advice would be to give additional penalty to hit if you load them both yourself, and try to utilize henchman for loading (although with that many attacks per round, crossbows and staff would be all over the place ;-) ).

Additional pictures can be found all over the place once you know what you're looking for.
[1] and [2]

All in all, unless you're a total crossbow-fan, it's bows that are made for speed, crossbows are for power and easy use.



*when I wrote that, I've heard a whisper. As if thousand of bolts were released at once, searching for my heathen hide.

 

[TanisFrey]

To dual wield crossbows correctly, I show to the movie Willow. Where we see this occurring. The hero fires, drops the x-bows and pick up the next loaded ones.