Dread Necromancer VS. Cleric

[NEXxREX]

I've spent awhile going through different forums and trying to figure out why people say clerics are the best necromancers. but i don't see why.

clerics can command undead HD equal to their level, and they have lots of utility. but that's about all i see as their Necromantic abilities.

But if you go 8 Dread Necromancer and 2 Pale Master you can use animate dead for free 1/day and control 4 hd/lv + cha Mod of undead (currently a +5 so 81 HD worth of undead)

plus undead mastery = 4 str 4 dex 2hp/hd
corpse crafter = 4 str 2 hp/hd
desecrate = 2 hp/hd

and alot of other feats in libris mortis to make undead created with animate dead that much stronger.

Bolster Resistance =+4 turn resistance
Deadly Chill = +1d6 cold damage on melee attacks
Destruction Retribution = deal negative energy damage when killed
Hardened Flesh = +2 natural armor
Nimble Bones = +4 to initiative and +10 ft./round.

the feats can be taken as a cleric but the + cha mod of Hd seems like it blows clerics out of the water

am i missing something?

 

[Talonblaze]

Probably due to the fact that they not only have feats to bolster such, but also the magic capabilities. Being one of the strongest classes in magic. (druid, cleric and wizard being the top tiers).

Personally never played a necromatic cleric to know but from what I can see their spells definitely lend themselves to aid in such. Domains might also play in a factor to their power, but this is merely my speculation. I'm sure there is quite a ton of other builds that compliment them as well.

Being able to heal tons of your undead servants quickly and easily is usually worth more than numbers in my opinion since they last longer. Add on buffs and they become that more potent. Numbers always aren't more powerful.

 

[Tharkon]

I've spent awhile going through different forums and trying to figure out why people say clerics are the best necromancers. but i don't see why.

clerics can command undead HD equal to their level, and they have lots of utility. but that's about all i see as their Necromantic abilities.

But if you go 8 Dread Necromancer and 2 Pale Master you can use animate dead for free 1/day and control 4 hd/lv + cha Mod of undead (currently a +5 so 81 HD worth of undead)

plus undead mastery = 4 str 4 dex 2hp/hd
corpse crafter = 4 str 2 hp/hd
desecrate = 2 hp/hd

and alot of other feats in libris mortis to make undead created with animate dead that much stronger.

Bolster Resistance =+4 turn resistance
Deadly Chill = +1d6 cold damage on melee attacks
Destruction Retribution = deal negative energy damage when killed
Hardened Flesh = +2 natural armor
Nimble Bones = +4 to initiative and +10 ft./round.

the feats can be taken as a cleric but the + cha mod of Hd seems like it blows clerics out of the water

am i missing something?

First of all, Clerics can cast Animate Dead as well, in fact they can at level 5, as opposed to level 7 for Wizards and 8 for Sorcerers.

Second, Clerics ability to rebuke undead is powered by Charisma, so high Charisma isn't that bad. And since you won't be dealing out the blows yourself much and can wear good armor you won't need that much Strength and Dexterity. Constitution doesn't hurt, but Intelligence isn't that important for Clerics either.

Third, I got to look up Dread Necromancer and Pale Master cause I haven't heard of them.

I found the Pale Master in Libris Mortis, which has nice abilities, but a Cleric can still control more Undead by virtue of his rebuking ability.

I found the True Necromancer, also in Libris Mortis, also very interesting though. With the ability to animate, create, summon and rebuke undead.

 

[rgard]

Have fun with this one.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-le...ncer-tomb-tainted-soul-feat-what-do-i-do.html

There is more here:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58923

And here:

http://community.wizards.com/bleak_academy/wiki/Dread_Necromancer's_Handbook

 

[rgard]

Third, I got to look up Dread Necromancer and Pale Master cause I haven't heard of them.

Dread Necromancer is in Heroes of Horror.

 

[Tharkon]

Dread Necromancer is in Heroes of Horror.

Aw.. I don't have that book.

And probably one reason Clerics are considered more popular is also because its a core class. So its only compared to the Wizard/Sorcerer, not to prestige classes.

 

[NEXxREX]

Second, Clerics ability to rebuke undead is powered by Charisma, so high Charisma isn't that bad. And since you won't be dealing out the blows yourself much and can wear good armor you won't need that much Strength and Dexterity. Constitution doesn't hurt, but Intelligence isn't that important for Clerics either.

dread necromancers cast as sorcerers so they use Cha to cast but those bonus's are for the undead and i can wear light armor without spell failure chance because of dread necromancer. and i have tomb tainted soul which is awesome with charnel touch, but positive energy hurts you so i have to be careful with my parties healers.

at my current level "11" char i have these bonus's to the undead i create
+4 str
+4 dex and another +2 from base creature if i make them skeletons
+6 hp/hd
+4 initiative
+10 Feet a round
and if their destroyed they blow up and deal 1d6 +1d6 for every 2 HD after first

and with these bonus's (which don't apply to undead that are rebuked) and the sheer amount of HD i can command more then a cleric i really think that a cleric could even shine a light to the dread necromancer

but clerics can only command their HD worth of undead when they rebuke (which dread necro can also rebuke), and the only have 4 hd worth of undead for animate dead compared to my current 9

And probably one reason Clerics are considered more popular is also because its a core class. So its only compared to the Wizard/Sorcerer, not to prestige classes.

dread necro is a base class gives you rebuke and the charnel touch attack (1d8 +1 /4 levels at will of neg energy damage, with tomb tainted soul it heals you) at lv 1 along with a host of other abilities such as DR, negative energy burst, and fear aura

I found the Pale Master in Libris Mortis, which has nice abilities, but a Cleric can still control more Undead by virtue of his rebuking ability.

it clearly states in the PHb (and i don't know if there's anything to change this besides a domain or something) but

Commanded: A commanded undead creature is under the
mental control of the evil cleric. The cleric must take a standard
action to give mental orders to a commanded undead. At any one
time, the cleric may command any number of undead whose total
Hit Dice do not exceed his level. He may voluntarily relinquish
command on any commanded undead creature or creatures in order
to command new ones.

and this is the main reason why i don't see rebuking as much of a strength, the limit on comtrol is to small, but even doubled its only 2 HD/level

thx rgard, iv gone through em all already......iv really read into it the past few months when i was making this character, im fairly new to the game but i catch on quick. just seeing if i missed anything.

 

[Dandu]

IIRC, there are some undead oriented domains that really up the HD of undead a cleric can control.

 

[NEXxREX]

IIRC, there are some undead oriented domains that really up the HD of undead a cleric can control.

the only domain i found that was close to increasing the command limit was Deathbound in libris mortis and thats only for undead created by spells

DEATHBOUND DOMAIN
Deity: Afflux.
Granted Power: Your limit for controlling undead animated
with spells increases to three times your caster level instead of
the normal two times caster level.


but i dont know if there is any way to increase the actual command limit besides maybe items

 

[rgard]

Aw.. I don't have that book.

Heroes of Horror also has the Archivist.

HoH is a good one to pick up.