DREAD NECROMANCER and TOMB-TAINTED SOUL feat---what do I do?

[Razz]

Ok the Dread Necromancer class in Heroes of Horror has an ability called Charnel Touch. They basically channel negative energy that damages living creatures and heals undead. This can be done at will, no limit.

Tomb-Tainted Soul is a feat that allows you to heal from negative energy but suffer damage from positive energy.

Now basically, he'll always be healed to maximum at the end of each encounter since he can just touch himself and continually boosts his hp back up. This is the first broken combo I've come upon and I am not sure exactly what to do.

Then again, at 20th-level Dread Necromancer, you're an undead. Which means you can do the same combo without the feat that time. However that's at 20th. This is a 1st-level character that can pull it off.

Maybe I should house rule that you can use Charnel Touch on other creatures but not yourself. Or I should ask the authors or WotC about this.

Any thoughts?

 

[RigaMortus2]

What book is Tomb-Tained Soul in? You could always disallow it...

 

[Question]

Seeing as how the spell list is geared towards summoning low HD undead that will last maybe 1-2 rounds max(even if you pour most of your feats on undead summoning augmenting feats), or touch spells that will get you killed with low hd and light armor, i dont really consider this a problem.

The way encounters are structured, a cleric can handle the healing needs of a party anyway, so this is really only a problem if you throw dozens of encounters at a party every day.....in which case infinite healing will be better. But in most cases what you need is lots of healing on the spot in the middle of a battle. Its like CLW vs lesser vigor.

 

[MadMaxim]

It's from Libris Mortis, and the combo you mention is just too obvious. The same goes for evil-aligned Clerics who spontaneously cast inflict spells. Of course, they have a limited number of slots to do it with, but it still works the same way. Considering that you have a Dread Necromancer in your party, perhaps some good-aligned Clerics might start hunting him/her for dealing with the undead in that way. They might see him/her as an abomination because he/she sustains his/her life through negative energy which certainly isn't meant for living creatures.

Other than that, it's just a good combo and if the enemies choose to focus their attention on the Dread Necromancer, he/she will still go down as fast as any other arcane spellcaster.

 

[Jubilee]

In every campaign I have played in, unless there were serious time constraints or endless waves of baddies, we have always taken the time to heal ourselves back up to full after an encounter before moving on to another. Whether this means divine healing or wands of cure light wounds or potions, we have taken the time and expend the resources. If it meant the cleric was out of spells or our wands had expired, then we made camp or headed back to civilization. It just doesn't seem like that big of a deal that the dread necromancer could heal himself 1 hit point a round, especially if after everyone else were done, the cleric still needed to rest to recover spells.

 

[airwalkrr]

Specifically, the ability to heal up completely after a fight is not a problem. However, in D&D, it is expected that this will consume resources.

Essentially, the dread necromancer gets a lich's or death knight's touch ability. The wording is not exactly the same, but given that the dread necromancer becomes a lich at 20th level and the effect is practically identical means that one is at least based on the other. Would you allow a lich or death knight to heal themselves with their negative energy touch? If so, then you should allow the PC to do the same. If not, then you could disallow the PC for the same reason; it is not in the spirit of the rules.

My personal opinion? The rules state what is specifically allowed. In this case, a dread necromancer's charnel touch explicitly states it can heal undead creatures and tomb-tainted soul explicitly says you are considered undead for the purpose of being healed by negative energy. On the surface, the combo seems allowable. The question is, did the designers foresee this as a problem? I am guessing not since they make the dread necromancer a lich at 20th level anyway. Consequently, I doubt that they considered it would be an issue, although perhaps they did not think of tomb-tainted soul. At any rate, the player is thinking very short term if he takes this feat as he will eventually become undead anyway.

 

[Nyeshet]

Perhaps state that they need to use a Turn/Rebuke Attempt to use the Charnal Touch? That will somewhat limit their uses per day.

 

[Sejs]

As far as healing goes, it's pretty crappy. Each touch heals 1 hp +1 per four caster levels.

So yeah, sure, given enough time he can heal himself back up to full but that's all time they're not doing something else.

Also bear in mind that with tomb-tainted soul the dread necromancer is very self sufficient, but at the same time they cannot be healed by the party cleric unless said cleric is evil or goes out of their way to memorize inflicts in addition to whatever other spells they prep.

In the end it's not that bad. I'd just leave it be.

 

[FireLance]

I think that the ability to start each encounter at full hit points isn't as broken as many people used to believe.

From experience, once a party gets access to a wand of cure light wounds (which, depending on the campaign, could happen as early as 3rd or even 2nd level) most PCs will go into fights at or close to full hit points anyway.

Even in a campaign that does not allow easy access to magic items, most parties will try to retreat and rest when they have depleted most of their resources, especially hit points and the spells that restore them.

Unless the DM's primary means of challenging the PCs is to keep them constantly at low hit points, the combination of Charnel Touch and Tomb-Tainted Soul doesn't sound game-breaking to me, especially if the dread necromancer is only healing his own wounds.

Mind you, even if the other party members catch on to the idea and take Tomb-Tainted Soul as well (if alignment permits), all that means to me as a DM is that the party will need to rest less, and I will be able to calibrate the challenges better since I can be fairly sure that the PCs will be at full hit points at the start of each one. Individual fights can still be pretty challenging since the rate of "healing" output for Charnel Touch is too low to have a significant effect once combat begins.

 

[IceFractal]

Its not really a problem, especially because a Dread Necromancer is primarily a summoner type, and not at all a tank. As such, spell slots, not hit points, are the resource that determines when they have to stop and rest. A summoner shouldn't really be getting hit anyway, and if they are attacked, they're pretty much as likely to die at full hp as partial hp, given their low totals.

Even if the whole party somehow benefits from this, it's not really a big deal - it just means they'll last a few more encounters before they need to rest, but they won't be much stronger in any given encounter. Ditto for fast healing - it's not the problem it's cracked up to be.

The perception of this as a problem may come from the idea of healing as a Cleric's niche, something that should not be infringed on. Now that Clerics can fight and cast a variety of non-healing buffing and summoning spells, healing is more properly looked at as a chore that should be shared to the extent possible.