D&D 5E Does "Nondetection" cancel out see invis?

[Gwarok]

Just wanted some clarification if an invisible creature also has Nondetection up and "can't be targeted by any divination magic" if this means that See Invisible doesn't work against it. This spelled out somewhere? If so I must have missed it.

 

[Yardiff]

I don't think See Invisible actually targets an invisible creature. The spell has range Self so does not effect anything but the caster that allows them to see through illusion invisibility spells/abilities.

 

[Gwarok]

I thought so too, but Scrying also has a range of "Self" and I was wondering if Nondetection just makes divination magic slide around it in general. It's going to come up in my campaign soon I'm pretty sure and I'll have to make a ruling on it which will no doubt be argued if I don't have some sort of general consensus. My players take decisions here as gospel

 

[CAFRedblade]

True Seeing and See Invisible doesn't target a specific creature/person, and they don't create scrying sensors, use scrying devices, so shouldn't be affected/blocked by Non-Detection. The spells reveal/strip away the Inivisibility condition and allows the user to see properly. Since once the Invisibility is 'gone' they are using their own eyes to spot things, they see the person.
Kinda like sneaking in the dark, you're in the middle of the room, and someone turns on the lights.. no cover, you are fully visible.

 

[CAFRedblade]

I thought so too, but Scrying also has a range of "Self" and I was wondering if Nondetection just makes divination magic slide around it in general. It's going to come up in my campaign soon I'm pretty sure and I'll have to make a ruling on it which will no doubt be argued if I don't have some sort of general consensus. My players take decisions here as gospel

Usually when scrying you require or create a device that looks for you and reports back the visual information. Non-Detection edits that magical video feed to not show you. It also makes it so you can't be directly targeted to find you either. So a person could attempt to track you down, say by targeting a friend you might be talking to, and if you were there, they'd see a one sided conversation... if only the two of you are present.

 

[Dausuul]

I thought so too, but Scrying also has a range of "Self" and I was wondering if Nondetection just makes divination magic slide around it in general. It's going to come up in my campaign soon I'm pretty sure and I'll have to make a ruling on it which will no doubt be argued if I don't have some sort of general consensus. My players take decisions here as gospel

Remember that nondetection has two effects. First, it prevents targeting by divination spells, and second, it makes you invisible to scrying sensors. Scrying is not blocked by the first effect, but falls afoul of the second.

I agree with the consensus: If the spell neither targets nor creates a scrying sensor, nondetection won't stop it.

 

[LordEntrails]

I think Non Detection would cancel out See Invisible. The first sentence of ND says "you hide a target that you touch
from divination magic". Since SI is divination magic, to me this means that ND would negate the SI spell, and leave the creature invisible.

 

[jaelis]

I think Non Detection would cancel out See Invisible. The first sentence of ND says "you hide a target that you touch
from divination magic". Since SI is divination magic, to me this means that ND would negate the SI spell, and leave the creature invisible.

Crawford says that is correct:

Q: Nondetection' spell. Can it prevent 'See Invisibility' spell? Does it prevent all divination magic?
A: The nondetection spell hides you from divination magic. See invisibility is a divination spell.

 

[cbwjm]

I'd probably let see invisibility bypass nondetection. For me nondetection stops spells like locate creature or whatever other form scrying spells take. I think see invisibility would be an exception to nondetection's effects.

The signature of champions.

 

[MiraMels]

Crawford says that is correct:

I run it the same way. Nondetection renders you undetectable by divination magic. A creature masked by Nondetection and invisibility isn't revealed by see invisibility or detect magic or detect thoughts or true seeing.

I wouldn't have the players' adversaries use such a spell combination against them, that would hardly be sporting, but I wouldn't say no if my players decided to use this combination against their foes.