Does Medium Armor Need a Buff?

[Xeviat]

(This is in reference to 5E D&D; sorry for the confusion)

Hi everyone! Recent WotCommunity transplant, though I've had an account here for some time. I'm really liking it, and I hope enough of you like my constant fiddling with the rules. I like balance, I like fairness, and I love symmetry.

I recently finished a deep comb through of the PHB and listed out everything that I'd like to house rule. It's a 3 page document. As I get things together, it will probably be a blog or a series of threads here linked to a master thread. But a few stuck out at me as really simple, likely uncontroversial things to address.

My first topic is is Medium Armor. I'm not sure how to look at it. It doesn't grow like light armor or heavy armor. Let me show you what I mean.

It's safe to assume that most light armor wearers are starting with a Dex of 16 (some bards, some fighters, some rangers, all rogues; we're ignoring the dedicated spellcasters because they're in their own class). Starting with a Dex 16 starts you at AC 15 in studded leather, something that's easy enough to afford at first level. It's also safe to assume, especially since feats are "optional", that said light armor wearers will bump their Dex up at level 4 and 8 (maybe 6 for the fighter), getting them AC 16 at 4 and AC 17 at 8. Neat.

Heavy armor wearers (some clerics, most fighters, all paladins) don't have to worry about their Dex scores, and can funnel those points into another stat; possibly Constitution if they really want combat durability. This is an advantage of it's own. They will likely start with chain mail and start with an AC of 16 (barring shield use). At some point, they'll upgrade to splint for AC 17, and again to plate for AC 18.

Medium armor wearers (some barbarians, some bards, some clerics, possibly some fighters, some rangers) need to get a 14 Dex to maximize their AC; this is going to be tough for a few of them, easy for the others. Medium armor wearers have two paths of medium armor; stealth penalty or no stealth penalty. Chainshirt and a dex of 14 offers AC 15 to start; just like the light wearer. Scale mail and a dex of 14 offers AC 16 to start, just like the heavy wearer. At some point, they will upgrade to Breastplate (AC 16) or Half Plate (AC 17), and they'll stop there.

So, my issue is that medium armor, when optimized, starts at the same points as light and heavy armor, but then lacks a second upgrade. Sure, a medium armor wearer who started out at chainshirt could upgrade to breastplate and then to half plate, but that's accepting a stealth penalty and changing gears.

Looking at the classes that get medium armor, are they supposed to fall behind the other classes in AC? I don't think so, since they start out the same. What are your thoughts?

Also, I was thinking to allow characters that are proficient in Heavy Armor to switch their heavy armor proficiency for part of the medium armor mastery feat ... but then I noticed it's a double feat and not a stat-boosting half feat. Oh well.

 

[discosoc]

I think there are basically two categories of classes/specs that get access to medium armor:

1. They have a thematic or mechanical need for a somewhat beefy AC without also really needing a high dex. Clerics are good examples of both of these since they've historically often been associated with beefier armor options than wizards, yet really have no specific use for dexterity.
2. The class will ideally use heavy armor, but the expense of a good suite of it is high enough that they probably won't get it for several levels at least. Classic case of a fighter using scale mail because it's all he can afford at first. He has better options to look forward to or work towards, but in the mean time, he can at least count of a reliable 16 AC (with shield) to start with.


My main piece of advice is to not be too liberal with handing out the heavy armor for a few levels, for the sake of making certain characters feel 'complete' or 'optimal' or whatever. Even if they kill a person wearing full plate, it should be clear that a somewhat significant investment will need to be made to have it refitted for them (a goal to work towards) rather than just donning it and having a level 2 run around with AC 21 (something like a shield fighter).

And that means most proper CR enemies will be +3 to hit in most cases, which means the fighter is getting hit on 18+, and that he's getting crit 33% of those hits. If the enemies are humanoid, they probably would be smart enough to just ignore that guy and focus on the less armored targets, which the player would probably complain about since he wants to be the tank. If the enemies are not so smart, they may wail on him rarely doing anything, while the rest of the party mops up. That's technically what the players probably want, but it gets really boring really fast because no one is having to use their special abilities since they can just slowly wear them down while the tank does his thing.

And *that* can lead to some bigger problems where you begin to think your players are just better than average, or min-maxed, or otherwise capable of dealing with higher CR creatures. So you start to throw tougher fights at them only very quickly find that the damage scaling is pretty aggressive, and you can one-shot characters quite easily if you aren't careful. One aoe effect, or maybe you misjudge something like a Hobgoblins Martial Advantage ability (+2d6 damage on a successful hit once per turn) turned against the healer because Hobgoblins are tactical.

Lastly, one thing you're going to notice is that despite your best efforts, different classes are going to hit periods where they seem to vastly outshine the other characters, and you'll probably never find a real even or balanced scenario. My groups example came in the form of the Paladin wanting to be a tank, but the Moon Druid could shift into a better tank starting at level 2, and really didn't stop outshining the Paladin until close to 8. The Paladin, meanwhile, can tank well enough, but has been pigeonholed into the role of bursty damage through smites despite preferring to tank. And no matter how good he may be, *very* few enemies are going to focus on the guy wearing full plate and a shield when there is huge snake or polar bear right next to him.

 

[MG.0]

Heavy armor wearers (some clerics, most fighters, all paladins) don't have to worry about their Dex scores, and can funnel those points into another stat;

They may regret that decision when making a DEX check to avoid falling into an active volcano.

There's no such thing as a useless stat to any character if your DM is doing his job properly and not just lining up one combat after another.

 

[Xeviat]

They may regret that decision when making a DEX check to avoid falling into an active volcano.

There's no such thing as a useless stat to any character if your DM is doing his job properly and not just lining up one combat after another.

That's a trade off in itself; Dex saves vs. Con saves in this case. I could say the same thing, but with poison gas (or the fumes from said volcano).

That's a separate issue.

 

[Xeviat]

Lastly, one thing you're going to notice is that despite your best efforts, different classes are going to hit periods where they seem to vastly outshine the other characters, and you'll probably never find a real even or balanced scenario. My groups example came in the form of the Paladin wanting to be a tank, but the Moon Druid could shift into a better tank starting at level 2, and really didn't stop outshining the Paladin until close to 8. The Paladin, meanwhile, can tank well enough, but has been pigeonholed into the role of bursty damage through smites despite preferring to tank. And no matter how good he may be, *very* few enemies are going to focus on the guy wearing full plate and a shield when there is huge snake or polar bear right next to him.

It's been my goal as a house ruler since 3E to iron out these sorts of bumps. But the medium armor issue isn't a bump; it's a drop off. After level 7, a dex focused character will use light armor and a non-dex focused character will use heavy armor (if they have the option; and many will seriously consider that 1 fighter level to get it; the cleric and druid are different issues here, as they are primary casters or their build gives them heavy or combat wildshape). It becomes a non-option, when it was optimally perfectly balanced with the others levels 1-7.

Also, the standard fighter package comes with chain mail; it can be afforded.

 

[discosoc]

Falling into an active volcano will involve a whole lot more than a Con save or two. I can't imagine anyone getting out of that alive without featherfall (or similar) and fireprotection. Featherfall to not simply die from impacting the lava, which contrary to media depictions is not like falling in red/yellow water, and some way to withstand or soak the extreme heat while you climb (more checks?) your way out of there. Now a good Con mod will help you possibly hold your breath to avoid sulfuric fumes and such, but even that's a stretch.

I think a single Dex save is better.

 

[Xeviat]

Falling into an active volcano will involve a whole lot more than a Con save or two. I can't imagine anyone getting out of that alive without featherfall (or similar) and fireprotection. Featherfall to not simply die from impacting the lava, which contrary to media depictions is not like falling in red/yellow water, and some way to withstand or soak the extreme heat while you climb (more checks?) your way out of there. Now a good Con mod will help you possibly hold your breath to avoid sulfuric fumes and such, but even that's a stretch.

I think a single Dex save is better.

Why would you be putting your players in a save or die situation anyway? You're relying on hyperbole instead of looking at the issue itself: AC.

Besides, if you get a volcano, I get save or die poison.

 

[discosoc]

It's been my goal as a house ruler since 3E to iron out these sorts of bumps. But the medium armor issue isn't a bump; it's a drop off. After level 7, a dex focused character will use light armor and a non-dex focused character will use heavy armor (if they have the option; and many will seriously consider that 1 fighter level to get it). It becomes a non-option, when it was optimally perfectly balanced with the others levels 1-7.

Also, the standard fighter package comes with chain mail; it can be afforded.

Yes, but in many cases the chainmail is still not really a great option unless the fighter has zero dex mod. He may, but it's not a given. Especially if he's wanting to pick up something like Shield Master and be better capable of defending against things like fireballs and traps and things which usually seem to force Dex saves.

Light armor is also really only because the better option for *all* dex-focused characters if they continue pumping the dex stat, which means missing out on feats they may be interested in. And by all means, if you run games where the only challenge players encounter have stat blocks, then I suppose it makes sense that certain parts of the game won't be as useful as they otherwise could be.

Also, the feat Medium Armor Master alone goes a long way to allowing someone to use something like Half plate, and still be a dex-focused fighter. AC 18, just like full plate, but can stealth properly; something that might be attractive to a ranger or certain barbarians. Even without the Medium Armor Master feat, medium armor can still be attractive to classes that can't use heavy armor, and might not want to dump everything into dex. Certain clerics are still good examples.

 

[discosoc]

Why would you be putting your players in a save or die situation anyway? You're relying on hyperbole instead of looking at the issue itself: AC.

Besides, if you get a volcano, I get save or die poison.

I wouldn't be; it wasn't my suggestion. I was just explaining that it's not as simple as saying heavy armor characters can ignore dex. It's certainly viable, and possible they better route mechanically, but in a world with so many Dex saves from spells and traps, it's not exactly cut and dry either.

 

[Xeviat]

Chainmail is better AC than scale mail unless you have a Dex of 14, when they're equal. If you're going to have a Dex of 14, then go for scale mail. Super. You're even. That's what I've been talking about. Outside options, like feats and saves frankly, are a separate issue.

IF a dex-focused character (one who uses dex as their attack stat) isn't pumping dex, then they are willfully choosing some sort of trade off. Their attack bonus will drop relative to the ACs of higher CR foes. Since feats are balanced against primary stat increases largely, it could be a fair trade off. Again, that's a separate issue. You don't need to slip in veiled insults of people's DMing styles: "if you run games where the only challenge players encounter have stat blocks ..."

Medium Armor Master requires a Dex of 16 to optimize it. For a dex focused character that has access to medium armor, it's a feat for +1 AC, or +2 AC if you were using breast plate and you switch up to half-plate. It's a nice feat. It's still a feat; if we're going to compare feats, then heavies get heavy armor mastery.

I have a hard time believing that a cleric will be pushing Dex 16. Most rangers will, so it's an attractive feat for them. Barbarians likely won't, as they are double rewarded for pumping Con. But, again, you're comparing feats, which should be balanced against their opportunity cost. If you have the 15 Strength, and you don't care about stealth, then Heavily Armored is going to be a better feat anyway (same AC and an extra +1 to str or con).

If what you're saying is that medium armor exists for those who don't have heavy and aren't dex focused, I can almost get behind that, if it weren't for medium armor being exactly even in AC/stealth to Light or Heavy armor.