Do the effects of Waves of Fatigue & Ray of Exhaustion stack?

[rvalle]

A player wants to know if he hits a group with WoF http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/wavesOfFatigue.htm (no save, auto fatigued) and then starts to hit individule tagets with RoE http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/rayOfExhaustion.htm (Ray, if fails fort save Exhausted else fatigued) will the targets be auto fatigued?

Since if they make their save and get a fatigued result but are already fatigued do they stack and the target get Exhausted?

rv

 

[kreynolds]

I don't have a problem with that. I don't think it is unbalancing or anything. Even if his wave hits 5 baddies, that's still 5 rays he has to launch, and hit with, to exhaust them.

 

[eamon]

From the ray of exhaustion description:

A successful Fortitude save means the creature is only fatigued.

A character that is already fatigued instead becomes exhausted.

So yes, a creature fatigued by waves of fatigue would become exhausted even on a successful save. For that matter, two successive ray's would also render a creature exhausted, even on successful saves.

 

[Hypersmurf]

For that matter, two successive ray's would also render a creature exhausted, even on successful saves.

Well, it's a non-instantaneous, non-damaging spell... if you have it operating twice on the same target, they don't generally double up. Waves and Ray in combination - no problem. Two rays - I don't know it would stack.

Similar to multiple Cause Fear spells, in that way - I'd let Cause Fear, Fear, and Scare stack up the fear conditions, but not several Cause Fears.

-Hyp.

 

[eamon]

Well, it's a non-instantaneous, non-damaging spell... if you have it operating twice on the same target, they don't generally double up. Waves and Ray in combination - no problem. Two rays - I don't know it would stack.

In general, identical effects don't stack, but I was reading such stacking into the sentence "A creature that is already fatigued becomes exhausted instead." - i.e. making the conclusion that since a creature once affected by the ray must be fatigued, the second ray would make it exhausted. If you consider the text to simply be a "reminder" of how exhaustion and fatigue combine/relate, then it's not pertinent to the spell, and then you simply have two identical effects, which don't stack.

Of course, "fatiguing" a creature twice to make it exhausted isn't strictly speaking stacking at all in the normal banned sense, but it's similar enough all right. I think it should work because it's not very game breaking, isn't a numerical effect (which are generally prohibited from stacking), and because I think that's why the reminder is there. But by allowing it, you do set a precedent, so if you call it stacking and ban it, that's not a big deal either.

 

[rvalle]

Well, it's a non-instantaneous, non-damaging spell... if you have it operating twice on the same target, they don't generally double up. Waves and Ray in combination - no problem. Two rays - I don't know it would stack.

Similar to multiple Cause Fear spells, in that way - I'd let Cause Fear, Fear, and Scare stack up the fear conditions, but not several Cause Fears.

-Hyp.

This was my thought as well.

In general, identical effects don't stack, but I was reading such stacking into the sentence "A creature that is already fatigued becomes exhausted instead." - i.e. making the conclusion that since a creature once affected by the ray must be fatigued, the second ray would make it exhausted. If you consider the text to simply be a "reminder" of how exhaustion and fatigue combine/relate, then it's not pertinent to the spell, and then you simply have two identical effects, which don't stack.

Of course, "fatiguing" a creature twice to make it exhausted isn't strictly speaking stacking at all in the normal banned sense, but it's similar enough all right. I think it should work because it's not very game breaking, isn't a numerical effect (which are generally prohibited from stacking), and because I think that's why the reminder is there. But by allowing it, you do set a precedent, so if you call it stacking and ban it, that's not a big deal either.

But the text of RoE says the effect goes away when the spell duration ends so its not really making you fatigued but making you feel like you are... if you know what I mean.

Thanks for the input guys.

rv