DM Question: Mind Blank

[Celtavian]

How do you judge what spells do and do not work on a character using the Mind Blank Spell?

Text says that "subject is protected from all devices and spellds that detect, influence, or read emotions or thoughts. This spell protects against all mind-affecting spells and effects as well as information gathering by divination spells or effects. Mind Blank even foils limited wish, miracle, and wish when they are used in such a way as to the affect the subject's mind or to gain information about him."


This seems pretty broad.

Let me give some situations where the wording is vague to me.

Example 1: Phantasmal killer spell. This spell is supposed to affect only the subject by using his own most horrible fear against him. Would Mind Blank protect against this spell since it is affecting the subjects mind?

Example 2: Improved Invisibility: Would True Seeing or Detect Invisibility see a mage who was invisible wiht a mind blank spell in operation? Or he would he just not appear to be there?

Have any of you DM's ever had problems arbitrating situations where Mind Blank might combine with another spell in such a way as to bring up such questions?

 

[Thanee]

I think only spells that affect the target directly are thwarted, like Scry, Detect Thoughts, Suggestion, Charm or Hold.

See Invisible or True Seeing avoid illusions placed upon the target and do not affect the target directly, so should work normally.

Spells with the [Mind-Affecting] tag cannot affect the target. Phantasmal Killer falls under this category.

Mind Blank has been stated to work against Discern Location, BTW.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Iku Rex]

Example 1: Phantasmal killer spell. This spell is supposed to affect only the subject by using his own most horrible fear against him. Would Mind Blank protect against this spell since it is affecting the subjects mind?

Yes. Mind Blank protects against mind-affecting spells. Phantasmal Killer is a mind-affecting spell. Therefore, Mind Blank protects against Phantasmal Killer. Not in the least bit vague.

Example 2: Improved Invisibility: Would True Seeing or Detect Invisibility see a mage who was invisible wiht a mind blank spell in operation? Or he would he just not appear to be there?

Mind Blank protects against information gathering by divination spells. True Seeing is a divination spell. Therefore, Mind Blank protects against True Seeing. Not in the least bit vague.

(That said, the Sage ruling on the later issue is, IIRC, that Mind Blank only protects you from information gathering with "long range" divination spells, like Scry. )

 

[Zenon]

How do you judge what spells do and do not work on a character using the Mind Blank Spell?

Oh, no. Not again!

Example 2: Improved Invisibility: Would True Seeing or Detect Invisibility see a mage who was invisible wiht a mind blank spell in operation? Or he would he just not appear to be there?

If someone can do a search, there were a couple of threads a few months agao about Mind Blank. I think they also listed what the Sage and Monte had to say about the spell and what it protects from.

IIRC, it did not protect against someone using a True Seeing or Detect Invisibility to find an invisible mind-blanked character.

A little help anyone? (for the links to these threads)

 

[Arravis]

Can someone point me to the location of where it states that Mind Blank protects against Discern Location? Dragon magazine issue, etc... or wherever it may be found.

 

[Iku Rex]

Can someone point me to the location of where it states that Mind Blank protects against Discern Location? Dragon magazine issue, etc... or wherever it may be found.

The official FAQ:

Q: Can someone using a discern location spell find someone using mind blank spell?

A: No. While the discern location spell description contains some pretty strong language about the spell's ability to overcome effects that block scrying of divinations, the general rule in the D&D game favors defense over offense, so mind blank's ability to block scrying and all forms of divination
trumps discern location's ability to penetrate such defenses. Blocking spells of 7th level or less, however, are still ineffective against discern location.

(My emphasis)

 

[KarinsDad]

(My emphasis)

Yup. Sage just cannot make up his mind.

 

[Striderman]

ahhhhhhhhhh...
I remember fondly the old mind blank vs. true strike debate.
that was such fun. I almost want to start it over again! j/k

 

[LordAO]

I disagree that true seeing doesn't work because it doesnt specifically target the mind blanked character. It just allows you to see things as they really are. It gives you information indirectly, not directly. You couldnt read their aura to determine their thoughts or alignment, but you could see through their invisibility spells and such. Mind blank only affects spells that target the subject's mind or try to get info about them personally. Thus spells like locate creature wouldn't work, nor would scrying, because they directly target the creature itself. Of course true strike would work, it targets the caster not the target. All it does is give the attacker a +20 to hit. The rest is just flavor text.

 

[Celtavian]

Re

Good information.

I still wonder about detect invisibility and true seeing though.

Why?

The spell states that a person scrying would not see a mind blanked individual. Even if they were just randomly scrying an area that the mind blank individual happened to be in, the mind blanked individual would not show up. If you you cast a detection spell while scrying, it would not affect a mind blanked individual in the area, or that is what I think.

I see no reason why true seeing or detect invisibility would detect an invisibly mind blanked individual. If it blocks the location of the individual by divination, then why would it not stop true seeing and detect invisibility from locating an individual who is invisible.

Scrying works under the same principle. If you had several objects and people in a location, a mind blanked individual would not show up, yet all the other people and objects would. The same is not true if you have several invisible people in the same area? What spell allows a person to block detection from short range divinations? Non-detection? If this is not the case, then there would be far more dead casters and deep gnomes because they certainly would not be able to stealth about if low level divinations cannot be countered by spells like Mind Blank and Non-detection. No intelligent guard wizard or race who has access to magic would fail to employ such minor magics to detect such encroachments upon their lands.

Basically, it seems there is no spell able to block detection by such simple spells as detect magic, detect invisibility and true seeing even though they are some of the least of the divinations because they detect things indirectly. If Mind Blank and Non-detection don't work against short range divinations as well as long range, than they have little practical use.

This leads to another question: Can one use detect magic to detect any hidden or obscured magical object or magically hidden individual? This is a 0 lvl spell , yet if Mind Blank doesn't work against detect invisibility and true seeing, then their is no reason to believe that an indirect spell like detect magic wouldn't be equally as effective against invisible or obscured objects and creatues. This kind of defeats the purpose of even trying to use magic to hide people or objects if such simple low level spells can easily defeat them.