Divine Sacrifice is it balanced? (DotF)

[Winternight]

Hi,
the paladin in my group wants "Divine Sacrifice" as a spell. I for myself think it is ultra brutal, but I wanted to hear/read your opinion.

pal1
For every 2 hit points you sacrifice, on your next successfull attack you deal +1d6 damage, to maximum of +5d6 on that attack.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Using it is a serious risk if you're in melee with anything deadly enough to justify its use and considering that it's a paladin spell, I don't see it as being out of line. (It would need more serious evaluation were it a wizard, cleric, or druid spell).

I'd try it in play and see how it works.

 

[daTim]

It's not as bad as it looks. Even if you did the maximum of 5d6 damage, that averages out to 17.5 extra damage, while taking 10 damage, and there is still the chance that you can do less than 10 damage! It makes for a cool final strike kind of move in desperation, or maybe combined with a smite attack. Also consider that you have to cast the spell, and risk an AOO, while wasting a standard action.

 

[kigmatzomat]

Hi,
the paladin in my group wants "Divine Sacrifice" as a spell. I for myself think it is ultra brutal, but I wanted to hear/read your opinion.

Divine Sacrifice is really the only reliably useful Paladin spell at low levels. While it provides a wonderful *whomp* aspect, it doesn't really unbalance things due to the damage it inflicts. Combined with Smite it gives them a few extra special thwacks that lets them keep up with the fighters when fighting evil. And face it, shouldn't the paladin do better against evil things than the fighter? Isn't that their forte? Fighters get nifty "kill all equally well" tricks while the paladin "kicks a$$ for the lord"?

Besides, you miss the biggest trick of DS: using it mounted. Thanks to share spell, DS applies to the mount too. It hurts to use but that extra 5d6 comes in real handy to convince monsters that no, a paladin's mount is *not* a snack.

 

[Winternight]

Besides, you miss the biggest trick of DS: using it mounted. Thanks to share spell, DS applies to the mount too. It hurts to use but that extra 5d6 comes in real handy to convince monsters that no, a paladin's mount is *not* a snack.

I havn`t missed that.
But as I understand "share spell" you means either the pal or the mount. (or both)
So if the mount does want to make the extra 5d6 damage it has to sacrifice 10 hits also.
But will do it with all of it`s attacks ( 2 hoves and one bite)
(lousy to hit bonus though )

 

[shilsen]

So if the mount does want to make the extra 5d6 damage it has to sacrifice 10 hits also. But will do it with all of it`s attacks ( 2 hoves and one bite) (lousy to hit bonus though )

The mount would just get the bonus to damage on its "next successful attack", so only the first one out of the hooves and bite which connects benefits, not all of them.

 

[reapersaurus]

What I believe you DID miss is the duration of Divine Sacrifice:
1 round per level.
And remember that Paladin levels are counted as HALF, so an 8th level paladin gets a whopping 4 rounds of use - ofh, excuse me - 3 rounds of use, since he had to waste one round casting it.

1 Round/level spells are almost useless for Paladins due to that ridiculous "caster level is half' limitation that does nothing but weaken the Paladin in comparison to other classes, since most people consider his casting to be a significant benefit.

BTW:

Share Spells: At the paladin’s option, she may have any spell (but not any spell-like ability) she casts on herself also affect
her mount.

Seems pretty straight-forward to me that it effects both, not just one.

 

[Lamoni]

What I believe you DID miss is the duration of Divine Sacrifice:
1 round per level.
And remember that Paladin levels are counted as HALF, so an 8th level paladin gets a whopping 4 rounds of use - ofh, excuse me - 3 rounds of use, since he had to waste one round casting it.
.

I don't think that the duration matters much. Since it says: "For every 2 hit points you sacrifice, on your next successfull attack you deal +1d6 damage, to maximum of +5d6 on that attack." The Paladin should be able to hit within 3 rounds and once he has that successful attack, the spell is over. Making it last for 20 rounds would have the same effect.

I don't think that the spell is overpowered at all. A spell that deals an average of 17.5 damage at the cost of a standard action, a possible AoO, and 10 damage to the caster doesn't sound that frightening. In fact, it sounds so non-frightening to me that I have never selected it with my Paladin even though I have access to it. If it added the extra 5d6 damage to each swing in 1 full-round attack, I'd change my mind and take it. Although then it would have a greater possibility of dealing zero damage if you missed in that round.

 

[reapersaurus]

umm.. it describes right in the spell text that the spell continues till the end of the duration, it doesn't stop once one successful attack is made.

It is one of the only good Paladin spells, but it's certainly not broken, or in need of nerfing.
It's kind of like gambling with your hit points - for every 2 points you do yourself, you do (IF YOU HIT) 3.5 to the enemy (max 7.5 damage per round 'gained').
Of course, if you miss, than you're only doing damage to yourself...

 

[Hypersmurf]

I see it working well with Divine Might and a nice magic bow...

... maybe using 3E Holy Sword...

Especially if you can arrange something like Regenerate Critical Wounds to partially counteract the sacrifice.

-Hyp.