Divine Power & Righteous Might Supersize Me

[FreeTheSlaves]

Ok, this is an old topic but I witnessed it for real last Sunday and it has had me thinking for a bit. Really, I just want to get a bit of feedback from people that have seen it in actual play and how they found it.

I knew about the combo of course, but the spells written in the book don't have quite the same punch as some player's divine champion hacking foes with easy abandon.

At the time I was the dm and the opposing priestess (Fire Temple, RttToEE) thwacked the buffed Paladin instead of the cleric because I, the dm, did not realize how mighty the combo was. We all knew that the Paladin fully buffed was difficult to fight, so the priestess' reasoning seemed solid at the time. Clearly if I was as wise & experienced as her, she would have done otherwise but whoopdeedoo, all over red rover.

After the 8th/9th level characters smashed through an EL12 evil temple fight, the party happens to have used less than 1/2 their spells. They are now going to rip into the next bunch of unfortunate, but normally otherwise quite tough foes. This leads me to my concern regarding balance - this cleric can do this twice per day.

Below is the example guff which is accurate for the cleric in our campaign.

****

Divine Power:
* bab = char level
* +6 enhancement to str
* 1 temp hp per caster level
* personal & short duration

Righteous Might:
* +8 size bonus to str
* -1 size modifier to bab & ac
* reach 10'
* weapon damage increases
* height & size increase
* +4 nat armour
* dr 5/evil (increase by 5 again at 12th & 15th level)
* personal & short duration

****

Pre-buff Cleric:
sword+11/+6, 2d6+5
ac 21
hp 83

Post-buff Cleric:
sword+20/+15, 3d6+16, reach 10'
ac 24 dr 5/evil
hp 92

(and a whole lot of divine favour, magic circle, bear's endurance buffs)

 

[MerricB]

Righteous Might has errata.

This spell causes you to grow, doubling your height and multiplying your weight by 8. This increase changes your size category to the next larger one, and you gain a +4 size bonus to Strength and a +2 size bonus to Constitution. You gain a +2 enhancement bonus to your natural armor. You gain damage reduction 3/evil (if you normally channel positive energy) or damage reduction 3/good (if you normally channel negative energy). At 12th level this damage reduction becomes 6/evil or 6/good, and at 15th level it becomes 9/evil or 9/good (the maximum). Your size modifier for AC and attacks changes as appropriate to your new size category. This spell doesn’t change your speed. Determine space and reach as appropriate to your new size.

Cheers!

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

Ooooh-wee!

My friend is going to blanch a bit, he he. Oh well, he'll still rock - just a little less mightily.

 

[Nightfall]

Until some god drops a fiery mountain on him anyway.

 

[Victim]

The spells have short enough durations that the cleric will probably need to cast them in combat, using up valueable actions. If the fight lasts 5 rounds, then spending the first 2 buffing means that the combination had better make the character really tough for the last 3.

Moreover, Righteous Might especially is a very obvious buff that's going to attract Dispel Magics and such. Buffing clerics really hate that. Sure, there are countermeasures, but those have their own costs and limitations.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

I just gave my friend a call then. He didn't mind at all, we both agree it is still a sweet combo.

To put things into perspective his 9th level cleric had the opportunity to cast both before combat and he happened to get very good mileage out of these spells in that particular battle.

Agreed, Righteous Might will attract the targetted dispels when he's against spellcaster foes. Although, could it be mistaken for enlarge person if the spellcraft check if fluffed?

His cleric has the str domain so he has used that spell a lot. In fact, I had gotten so used to bull's str & enlarge that perhaps subconciously I was a bit 'so what?' when his cleric seemed to do the routine with but 1 spell. Anyhoo, it'll soon be his turn to dm so I'm going to think up something particularly subtle & cunning to shake his sensibilities.

 

[Nightfall]

As long as their countermeasures don't counter my countermeasures.

 

[silentspace]

see the errata

 

[Sejs]

Yeah, those two are part of the reason some folks call clerics overpowered, heh.

Divine Power is basically the Become Fighter spell, and Righteous Might is Become Enlarged Barbarian. Additionally, unlike the wizard version of Become Fighter, they don't stop you from casting other spells for the duration. So while you're running around tall as a tree, kickin' ass for the lord, you can still reach out and drop a heal or two when needed.

For added fun, mix in Divine Vigor.

And yeah, a DP/RM'd cleric is a dispel magnet. But that's okay, they should be.

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

Yea. We hates the Targeted Dispel Magic, my Precious, we hates it!

The last five levels I've spent basically layering anti-TDM protections on my character. Ring of Counterspells, Mirror Images, etc etc.

The way fights usually run is the Fighter-type goes in swinging and gets punted around pretty badly. I fight some, see what's punting him so hard, protect myself against it and then hit Righteous Might + Strength Domain + Smite + Power Attack for the "Dispel Monster" combo and knock some heads.

It's powerful, to be sure, but to be honest I think we all pretty much seem to do similar amounts of damage. The Fighter gets in immediately and mixes it up for several rounds while I'm beefing up. He goes in putting down more damage than I do. The rogue spends several rounds maneuvering around and casting spells (Clr/Rog/Magic Domain) then whips in and Sneak Attacks. I spend several rounds skirmishing and buffing and then I whip in and spike damage, as well.

'Course, sometimes I get hit with six TDMs in a single round too. Then I cry.

Alot.

--fje