disintegration v regeneration

[orion90000]

Does a creature who has been disintegrated (transmuted to dust) still regenerate?

 

[steeldragons]

uh...I'm gonna go with "No."

--Steel Dragons

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

I'd be inclined to let Disintigrate kill a creature with regen, but the spell WAS massively changed in 3.5, and it now basically only turns you to dust if the damage kills you.

"Any creature reduced to 0 or fewer hit points by this spell is entirely disintegrated, leaving behind only a trace of fine dust."
Disintegrate :: d20srd.org

"Damage dealt to the creature is treated as nonlethal damage, and the creature automatically cures itself of nonlethal damage at a fixed rate per round, as given in the creature’s entry.

Certain attack forms, typically fire and acid, deal damage to the creature normally; that sort of damage doesn’t convert to nonlethal damage and so doesn’t go away. The creature’s description includes the details. A regenerating creature that has been rendered unconscious through nonlethal damage can be killed with a coup de grace. The attack cannot be of a type that automatically converts to nonlethal damage."
Special Abilities :: d20srd.org

So...I think by RAW it's impossible to kill a regenerating creature with Disintigrate because you can never deal lethal damage to it with the spell.

EDIT: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/injuryandDeath.htm#nonlethalDamage
"When you take nonlethal damage, keep a running total of how much you’ve accumulated. Do not deduct the nonlethal damage number from your current hit points."

 

[Vegepygmy]

3.5 MM, page 314: "Attack forms that don't deal hit point damage (for example, most poisons and disintegration) ignore regeneration." This is virtually identical to the language used in the 3.0 DMG.

Except the disintegrate spell does deal hit point damage in 3.5. (It did not in 3.0, unless you made your saving throw.)

Hmmmm...nothing in the FAQ.

My answer would be that if you deal enough damage to reduce the creature to dust, it's disintegrated and can't regenerate, but otherwise it regenerates the damage as normal.

 

[frankthedm]

Yeah, what SotS said. Regeners are even protected from the Death by Massive Damage rules by "An attack that can cause instant death only threatens the creature with death if it is delivered by weapons that deal it lethal damage."

Sometimes it's preferable the game be MORE like M:tG

Edit:

3.5 MM, page 314: "Attack forms that don't deal hit point damage (for example, most poisons and disintegration) ignore regeneration." This is virtually identical to the language used in the 3.0 DMG.

Except the disintegrate spell does deal hit point damage in 3.5. (It did not in 3.0, unless you made your saving throw.)

So it comes down to Rules text vs Example text.

My answer would be that if you deal enough damage to reduce the creature to dust, it's disintegrated and can't regenerate, but otherwise it regenerates the damage as normal.

RE-EDIT: Note that nonlethal damage never actually reduces a creatures HP total so the complete Disintegrate clause would not trigger. RE-RE-EDIT: Not saying its a bad ruling, just noting the technicality due to the RAW on non lethal damage.

 

[Gantros]

3.5 MM, page 314: "Attack forms that don't deal hit point damage (for example, most poisons and disintegration) ignore regeneration."

It's actually interesting to see how this bit of rules text has changed with each Monster Manual. In MM III & IV, they removed "disintegration" as an example, but left "most poisons". In MM V, they removed the examples altogether (including poisons), which matches the SRD text. This would seem to imply that WotC was aware of the discrepancy and corrected it to make it more explicit that disintegration can't kill creatures with regeneration.

On the other hand, the description of the tarrasque's regeneration ability specifically calls out how it handles disintegration and death effects differently from standard regeneration:

"The tarrasque regenerates even if it fails a saving throw against a disintegrate spell or a death effect. If the tarrasque fails its save against a spell or effect that would kill it instantly (such as those mentioned above), the spell or effect instead deals nonlethal damage equal to the creature's full normal hit points +10"
Tarrasque :: d20srd.org

So even the intent is not clear. Personally I'd say it's hard to justify a powerful effect like disintegration not being able to kill regenerating creatures (especially those that take lethal damage from more mundane things like fire or acid).

 

[orion90000]

The point is derived from the term: transmuted. If a troll is balefully polymorphed (transmuted) into a chicken does he lose his regeneration? I believe that when polymorphed you lose all extraordinary qualities thus when you are disintegrated you are turned into dust. The dust is dust not carbon ash.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Poly Any Object swaps Ex qualities the old form had for the ones of the new form, Shapechange swaps all Ex and Su attacks and qualities, and anything below those two spells merely swap Ex attacks but not qualities, I'm pretty sure.

 

[orion90000]

Alter Self: You keep all extraordinary special attacks and qualities derived from class levels, but you lose any from your normal form that are not derived from class levels.

Baleful Polymorph: With those exceptions, the target’s normal game statistics are replaced by those of the new form. The target loses all the special abilities it has in its normal form, including its class features.

Polymorph: This spell functions like alter self (...) It also gains all extraordinary special attacks possessed by the form but does not gain the extraordinary special qualities possessed by the new form or any supernatural or spell-like abilities.

Polymorph Any Object: This spell functions like polymorph, except that it changes one object or creature into another.

Shapechange: 9th level; You gain all extraordinary and supernatural abilities (both attacks and qualities) of the assumed form, but you lose your own supernatural abilities.

So all Polymorph-like spells with the exception of Shapechange (9th level) you lose any existing extraordinary racial qualities. So unless Disintegration duplicates the effects of a 9th level spell, I can't see why the affected creature would be allowed to regenerate.