D&D 5E Disguise Self

[Springheel]

I'm just getting back into D&D5e after being away from RPing for years.

I have a player creating a warlock who gets to cast Disguise Self at will, and I find myself a bit confused by the spell description. It says that the spell "fails to hold up to physical inspection", but it doesn't say what that means. If the warlock makes himself a hat, and an NPC puts his hand through the hat, does that:

1. cancel the spell?
2. reveal it as an illusion, but the NPC still sees the disguise?
3. reveals it as an illusion and makes the disguise see-through (as Minor Illusion)?

Likewise, the spell says that a creature can "discern that you are disguised" by making a Saving Throw, but again, I don't know what that means. First, what does "CAN" mean? That suggests that not all onlookers get to make a saving throw. Would it be safe to say only onlookers that have a reason to suspect something attempt a save? Or is the disguise dodgy enough that there are always little cues that make it suspicious to anyone that looks at it for long? Or do you have to actually make physical contact?

And as above, what would be the results of "discerning that you are disguised?"

A related question--the spell doesn't say anything about trying to duplicate the appearance of specific people. Is that allowed?

Thanks for the help.

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

Both the failing to hold up to physical inspection and discerning that you are disguised clauses mean just that; the person(s) inspecting/discerning know that what they are looking at is someone using illusion as disguise.

It is no different than if you were wearing a prosthetic nose and a fake beard and someone realized "That beard and nose are fake." They can't tell who you are behind the disguise, they just see that it is in fact a disguise.

The reason the word "can" is used is because the character has to actually take an action to inspect your appearance, and it's an Intelligence (Investigation) check, not an Intelligence saving throw that they make in doing so. Anyone can choose to take the needed action, though it's entirely up in the air if anyone actually will (A guard might inspect everyone trying to enter a restricted area, for example, but typical folk just passing you on the street likely have no reason to care if you are in a disguise or not so they won't bother).

On the topic of duplicating the appearance of specific people, that is covered by the limitations presented - the person would need to be within 1 foot of your height and have the same basic arrangement of limbs. If those qualifications are met, the phrase "Otherwise, the extent of the illusion is up to you." clearly says you can match a specific person's appearance.

So a human could look like another human or elf, and maybe even a dwarf depending on height, in particular, but wouldn't be able to convincingly impersonate a halfling (more than 1 foot shorter) or a marilith (6 arms and a snake tail is a different arrangement of limbs than 2 arms and 2 legs) with this spell.

 

[Springheel]

So you can mimic specific people, and no one can tell who or what you actually are even if they figure out the disguise? Isn't that pretty powerful for something that can be cast at will? How do DMs keep such characters from being overpowering in non-combat situations?

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

So you can mimic specific people, and no one can tell who or what you actually are even if they figure out the disguise?

Correct, just like if you were in a mundane disguise. To see who you are beneath it, it actually has to be removed, not just realized. That's true whether it requires dispel magic, or pulling off your mundane disguise.

Isn't that pretty powerful for something that can be cast at will?

Nope.

How do DMs keep such characters from being overpowering in non-combat situations?

The answer there is simply that being in disguise is not actually any benefit in the vast majority of situations, combat or non-combat alike.

In those rare enough situations that it is actually beneficial to be in disguise, this spell is not much more potent than what a character proficient in mundane disguise techniques can manage, and there are often people who are actively inspecting with the goal of determining if anyone present is in disguise because it is important for them to notice if that is the case, whether it is a mundane disguise or a magical one.

 

[Springheel]

The answer there is simply that being in disguise is not actually any benefit in the vast majority of situations, combat or non-combat alike.

Really? I immediately thought of players using it to get into places they shouldn't be able to, by impersonating servants, or getting free stuff by impersonating some important merchant, or getting out of jail by disguising themselves as a dead body, or sneaking into enemy camps by disguising themselves as enemy guards, avoiding capture by disappearing into crowds, carrying weapons into areas they shouldn't be allowed to by masking them as something else, scaring off enemies by appearing to be something dangerous, framing specific people for crimes, etc.

In those rare enough situations that it is actually beneficial to be in disguise, this spell is not much more potent than what a character proficient in mundane disguise techniques can manage

Hmm, I don't see how that can be true. You can't put on a complex disguise in an instant, but a Warlock can turn a corner and come out looking like an entirely different person a few seconds later. Physical disguises are nowhere near as versatile either (you can't make yourself look thinner than you are, for example, or make yourself look clean-shaven if you actually have a full beard). Not to mention that anyone can take off your physical mask to see who you really are, where you need a high level spellcaster to remove this spell.

I should note that in the past I've created campaign worlds where there are relatively few "heroes". People with more than a level or two in various classes are uncommon, so the chance of there being local spellcasters looking for illusions and ready to remove them would be rare....maybe that is colouring my perception.

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

Really?

Yeah, really. Look back at each of the things you immediately thought of and consider exactly how often each is going to come up, and exactly what can be gained from each.

Impersonating servants to get somewhere you shouldn't be doesn't actually provide all that much benefit unless your goal is "be somewhere you aren't supposed to be that a servant would be allowed to be."
Getting free stuff by impersonating an important person doesn't necessarily work, since even important people have to pay for anything that is of much use (in a campaign goals sense), and most really important people have a retinue of people they travel about with that you don't get to disguise your friends as without something more than just this spell.
Getting out of jail by disguising yourself as a dead body doesn't actually even work, in theory, because jailers are probably going to expect prisoners attempting a variety of ploys to escape and as such will probably inspect you - at the very least, physically picking you up to carry of your "corpse" is going to result in realizing you aren't dead (feign death is the spell that makes this ploy actually likely to work, not disguise self).
Sneaking into an enemy camp alone? Not a great plan if you ask me, no matter how likely your success might be (and it's not assured since looking like Jim the Enemy doesn't entail knowing how to act like Jim the Enemy, so you might get realized as out of place even if someone doesn't realize you aren't actually Jim's unknown twin).
Disappearing into a crowd doesn't even require a disguise, so there is no significant benefit their either.
Carrying weapons where they aren't allowed is either as easy as hiding them without the spell, or is as likely to fail as hiding them without the spell because the spell doesn't prevent a pat-down search from finding your weapons - and even disguising a weapon as some non-weapon object, anywhere that is trying to actually prevent weapons being brought in will have guards physically searching for hidden weapons in objects - but they won't be hidden, they'll just obviously feel like weapons even though they look like something else because the spell doesn't hold up to physical inspection.

Scaring off enemies by appearing to be something dangerous... you mean like a warlock?

Framing someone, however, is exactly the kind of thing this spell does help with - but how often do you really need to frame some specific person, rather than just prevent your actual identity being known, which a hooded cloak or any kind of mask would accomplish?

Hmm, I don't see how that can be true. You can't put on a complex disguise in an instant, but a Warlock can turn a corner and come out looking like an entirely different person a few seconds later.

Actually benefiting from a disguise, but not also having the time to apply a mundane disguise, is not a common thing - at least not any more common than a situation where "disguise" doesn't actually need to be anything but "I walked around the corner while being followed as 'that guy in the grey cloak', and then walked back out not being followed because I am know 'some guy in a blue cape' after no more than flipping a single reversible garment."

Physical disguises are nowhere near as versatile either (you can't make yourself look thinner than you are, for example, or make yourself look clean-shaven if you actually have a full beard). Not to mention that anyone can take off your physical mask to see who you really are, where you need a high level spellcaster to remove this spell.

They don't need to be as versatile in that aspect because they are more versatile in the way of which methods of detection they are capable of fooling - i.e. you can put on a fake beard and have it feel real and fully attached if someone pulls on it a little (not for a long while, nor hard enough as to actually pull real hair free of someone's face, of course), where a beard from disguise self is intangible so trying to touch it at all reveals it as obviously fake.

Not to mention that there aren't many situations in which you are going to have your physical disguise pulled off of you that aren't also situations in which you are going to be detained and observed long enough for your disguise self spell to expire, and you being bound and/or gagged to prevent spellcasting of which you are assumed capable upon being known to be disguised by magic.

Is it useful to be able to use disguise self at will? Absolutely. More useful than any of the other options you could have chosen for an invocation? Not without the campaign being tailored to ensure exactly that. Too useful for anyone to be able to take as an invocation in any campaign ever? Definitely not.

 

[Jennmomto4]

I have found using disguise self to be very useful in the right situation. It helps tremendously that the warlock is a charamatic character and can often convince most people that they are who they say the are.

One example where this paid off for myself and my group was after we escaped from a camp prison, I was able to diguise myself a one of the purple robe leaders and convinced the guards protecting the guy we were supposed to retrieve to take a hike. I held that disguise throughout that adventure and it proved quite helpful.

On the other side of that, I once failed a stealth check (I could be a rogue wearing nothing but my skivvies and still fail stealth checks) and quickly disguised myself as an injured solider before the guards saw me. Unfortunately I picked limping on a bum leg when he saw me and came over to give me a helping hand. His hand went straight through my "armor" and landed on my scrawny arms. Yeah *roll initiative*.

 

[Springheel]

I have found using disguise self to be very useful in the right situation. It helps tremendously that the warlock is a charamatic character and can often convince most people that they are who they say the are.

Yes, that's what I was thinking; excellent for spying, infiltration, assassinating, etc. Especially when you're dealing with low-Int creatures, like orcs...even if they had reason to try and see through the disguise, they're going to fail more than 2/3s of the time as long as they don't touch you (or even if they do depending on what you're disguised as. Does touching your armour reveal the disguise if you are a plate-wearing elf disguised as a plate wearing orc?). Combine that with some good bluffing on the part of the player and you could accomplish all kinds of things.

What about getting surprise attacks? If you successfully disguise yourself as a fellow guard with a scroll in your hand, saying you have a message, when in fact the scroll is your sword and you stab it into their face when you get close, shouldn't that grant you surprise? The guard certainly has no reason to be expecting an attack and wouldn't even have his weapon out.

 

[Awesome Adam]

No one is saying that Disguise Self isn't usefull, it's that it's equivalent to mundane disguise in usefulness.

Where Disguise Self is superior to mundane disguse is that it's application time is better. It's magic, it needs to be superior in that respect, otherwise what would be the point of the spell ?

 

[NotActuallyTim]

You're correct about the benefits, but all benefits mentioned can be gained through non magical means. The 'blade inside something normal looking trick' has been used IRL, after all, and I'm pretty sure most people can't cast spells around here.