Different flavor genasi w/o level adjustment

[Urbannen]

There was a thread in Rules about the earth genasi LA that made me want to post alternative genasi that I've worked on a little. They do not have level adjustments. The stat adjustments are meant to reflect both the physical aspect of the elements as well as personality elements associated with the four astrological elements or the four classical humors. The stat adjustments for all four races netted together are zero, to reflect the universal balance of the elements.

-All genasi are considered native outsiders.
-Genasi have darkvision 60'.
-Genasi clerics must have the clerical domain associated with their element as one of their chosen domains.
-Genasi that do not have to prepare their spells may not learn spells of an energy type that is opposed to their element.

Air Genasi: +2 Int, +2 Dex, -2 Str, -2 Con.
- (Su) Air genasi may use feather fall on themselves 3x/day. This ability will function even if the genasi is unconsious.
- Air genasi receive a +1 racial bonus to saves vs. air and electricity spells and effects, which increases by +1 every 5th level.
- Air genasi are especially susceptible to lack of air. They can only hold their breaths half the normal amount of time.
- Favored class: wizard

Fire Genasi: +2 Cha, -2 Wis.
- Fire genasi have fire resistance 5.
- Fire genasi receive a +1 racial bonus to saves vs. fire spells and effects, which increases by +1 every 5th level.
- Fire genasi are especially susceptible to the privations of hunger, since, like fire, they require constant refueling. They can only go half the normal number of days without food before beginning to take subdual damage from hunger, at which time they take one-and-a-half times the normal subdual damage.
- Favored class: sorcerer

Earth Genasi: +2 Str, +2 Con, -2 Dex, -2 Cha.
- Earth genasi have natural armor +2.
- Earth genasi receive a +1 racial bonus to saves vs. earth and acid spells and effects, which increases by +1 every 5th level.
- Earth genasi are especially susceptible to injuries sustained from falling through the air. They take one-and-a-half times the normal damage sustained from falls.
- Favored class: fighter

Water Genasi: +2 Wis, -2 Int.
- Water genasi can breathe water.
- Water genasi have a swim speed of 30.
- Water genasi receive a +1 racial bonus to saves vs. water and cold spells and effects, which increases by +1 every 5th level.
- Water genasi are especially susceptible to dehydration. They take one-and-a-half times the normal subdual damage from dehydration. Besides drinking fresh water, a water genasi can also rehydrate through total immersion in saltwater.
- Favored class: cleric

Any suggestions for these races? I don't have my books with me, so I may have gotten the rules for suffocation, hunger, and thirst wrong.

Other ideas for abilities might be:

- Elemental mastery (air, earth, water): when both the genasi and his foe are in the genasi's element (in the air, on land, in water), the genasi gains +1 to hit and to damage.
- +2 to Charisma checks against creatures of the genasi's type.

 

[Technik4]

Ok, first question. Are you comparing them to phb 3.5 races or FRCS sub-races? I ask only because in the phb there are no races that give mental bonuses, which you can take to mean in a couple ways - personally I don't like races without an ECL modifier that do have mental bonuses.

3e is designed so that everything else being equal, classes are also equal. Part of this philosophy includes not imparting role-playing restrictions in order to balance a race/class/feat/etc. For instance a race with +2 to all stats that was forced to eat 3/day and sleep 12 hours a night is not balanced with those negatives (even though they could be quite troublesome in game) because when the character is not eating or sleeping it is just flat-out more powerful than it should be. Naturally this would be most abusable with classes dependant on multiple ability scores.

Onto the genasi! The only one I think I would allow (as written) for ECL +0 is water genasi, and even then I think its quite powerful. Your genasi seem actually more powerful than the genasi in FRCS, yet you have have removed the ECL +1 part.

I'll work under the assumption that you don't think mental bonuses are inappropriate for ECL +0 races. Most races do not have darkvision. Most races are not native outsiders. This is special and should be factored into the cost of playing a genasi. While you may look at laundry lists of "abilities" when looking at a phb race, take a second look. They all have a +2 bonus against a type of saving throw (some have more powerful versions, like the dwarf who gets poison and spells) and usually around +4-+6 in skill point bonuses, with not necessarily powerful skills (again see the Dwarf who has craft and appraise bonuses). PHB races also have limited weapon proficiencies no, like the dwarf getting free exotics or the elf getting those 4 elven weapons.

PHB races do NOT get energy resistance, spell-like abilities (of spell level higher than 0), or natural armor bonuses. The races as you designed them are so obvious for their favored race they are almost a no-brainer. The only PHB race that suffers from that is the barbarian (I mean, the half-orc). The rest have favored classes, but they are not so fit for them that it seems unusual to see a halfling cleric, dwarven rogue, or elven warrior.


Going with your idea, this is my take.

-All genasi are considered native outsiders.
-Genasi have darkvision 60'.
-Genasi clerics must have the clerical domain associated with their element as one of their chosen domains.
-Genasi that do not have to prepare their spells may not learn spells of an energy type that is opposed to their element.


Air Genasi: -2 Str, +2 Dex
- (Su) Air genasi may use feather fall on themselves 1/day as long as they have a charisma of at least 11. This ability functions as if cast by a sorceror at a level equal to the genasi's character level.
- Air genasi have a +2 racial bonus to Gather Information, Listen, and Tumble.
- Air genasi receive a +1 racial bonus to saves vs. air and electricity spells and effects, which increases by +1 every 5th level.
- Air genasi are particularly proficient at flying. They always have +20 speed while flying, and are treated as one flying grade better than they should be.
- Air genasi are especially susceptible to lack of air. They can only hold their breath for only half the normal amount of time.
- Favored class: Rogue

Fire Genasi: +2 Int, -2 Con
- Fire genasi receive a +1 racial bonus to saves vs. fire spells and effects, which increases by +1 every 5th level.
- Fire genasi have a +2 racial bonus to Bluff, Intimidate, and Use Magic Device.
- Fire genasi favor sorcery over wizardry. They have a difficult time learning spells as a wizard and add +2 to the DC of any task involving a spellbook.
- Fire genasi are especially susceptible to the privations of hunger, since, like fire, they require constant refueling. They can only go half the normal number of days without food before beginning to take subdual damage from hunger, at which time they take one-and-a-half times the normal subdual damage.
- Favored class: Sorceror

Earth Genasi: +2 Con, -2 Wis
- Earth genasi receive a +1 racial bonus to saves vs. earth and acid spells and effects, which increases by +1 every 5th level.
- Earth genasi have a +2 racial bonus to Balance, Concentration, and Intimidate. Swim is always a cross-class skill for earth genasi.
- Earth genasi receive Toughness as a bonus feat at 1st level.
- Earth genasi are especially susceptible to injuries sustained from falling through the air. They take one-and-a-half times the normal damage sustained from falls.
- Favored class: Fighter

Water Genasi: +2 Dex, -2 Int
- Water genasi can breathe water.
- Water genasi receive a +1 racial bonus to saves vs. water and cold spells and effects, which increases by +1 every 5th level.
- Water genasi have a swim speed of 30.
- Water genasi have a +2 racial bonus to Concentration, Heal, and Survival checks.
- Water genasi are especially susceptible to dehydration. They take one-and-a-half times the normal subdual damage from dehydration. Besides drinking fresh water, a water genasi can also rehydrate through total immersion in saltwater.
- Favored class: Cleric


Nothing set in stone, but the races are more diverse without the mental bonuses (Except Fire Genasi). They are also more similar to PHB races because sometimes the bonuses are similar. None of them have a strength bonus, securing the half-orc's niche as the strong guy that pays for being strong (some of the elf sub-races have strength bonuses, but imo don't deserve them). An Air Genasi is not a halfling, though they have similar bonuses. Halflings are small and have different bonuses, though both favor rogues (changed from wizards). Fire genasi are strange because though they have a bonus to Intelligence, they favor sorcery. It is a great race for a sorceror (especially one concerned about skill points) and all the skills match things a sorceror might do. The race is also an interesting challenge as a wizard, going against the grain. Earth genasi are similar to dwarves (which makes sense), but tougher and faster. They suffer from lack of perception and falling. Water genasi are do not have the same stat adjustments as any race but make good clerics and rogues.

This was just an attempt, but I admit it is hard to reinvent the wheel when it comes to new races at ECL +0.

Good gaming,

Technik

 

[Jeph]

I suggest using the PHB races as a base, and working off of that. Since the Elf is the least quirky of them that has an amalgam of little modificiations, I think it's the best choice for this purpose. Along the lines of...

AIR GENASI
• +2 Dexterity, -2 Strength
• Medium-Size
• Base Speed 30'
• +2 racial bonus against electricity and sonic spells and effects
• Darkvision 60'
• Feather Fall 1/day as a Sorcerer with a caster level equal to their HD. This ability is only available to Air Genasi with an Intelligence of at least 11
• +2 Racial bonus on Jump, Tumble, and Knowledge (Any 1) checks
• Hold breath for 1/2 normal time.
• Automatic Languages: Common, Auran
• Favored Class: Rogue

Basically, we trade -2 Con for -2 Str, swich the bonus against Enchantments with one usable against Sonic and Electricity effects, trade Low-Light Vision for Darkvision, traded the proficencies for Feather Fall, and switched the racial skill bonuses. Poor pulminary stamina is added since Darkvision outclasses Low Light Vision and a spell can be more useful than a proficency. The same thing can be done for the other Genasi types. Trade-offs tend to result in less deviance from the power baseline.

 

[Urbannen]

These are some interesting suggestions. I honestly don't see that much of a problem with positive mental stat adjustments. I understand the reasoning against it, but the genie is already out of the bottle, so-to-speak. I personally don't have a problem with a spellcaster increasing his spell's save DC by 5%, especially since Spell Focus and Spell power have been nerfed. The attempt here was not to create new PHB races as WotC would create them.

There is a thread in the rules section questioning the standard earth genasi's level adjustment.

http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?t=63765&page=2

A couple of interesting things I drew from this thread are: 1. a lot of races in SS were given higher than necessary level adjustments in order to keep the PHB races attractive and 2. by some standards the dwarf would be a +1 LA race.

The fact that genasi have to be "Outsiders (native)" is problematic. Looking at the MM, it seems that fire and air genasi are descended from genies and water genasi are descended from tritons. I don't know from whom the earth genasi are supposed to be descended - xorns? Does the word "genasi" come from "genie"? Whatever the case, the abilities of the genasi don't seem particularly connected with genies, tritons, or xorns.

I'm tempted to give the genasi the type Humanoid (human, [element]). They are descended from humans after all. The loss of darkvision (an inappropriate ability IMO) and acquisition of the inferior humanoid type would allow the genasi to gain more abilities and still be balanced.

You may be right that my genasi are somewhat comparable to the genasi in the FRCS. Unlike the FRCS, my genasi don't all get Cha as a dump stat. I suspect that the plane-touched races were designed with a +1 LA so that people would avoid playing them very much.

PHB races do NOT get energy resistance, spell-like abilities (of spell level higher than 0), or natural armor bonuses. The races as you designed them are so obvious for their favored race they are almost a no-brainer. The only PHB race that suffers from that is the barbarian (I mean, the half-orc). The rest have favored classes, but they are not so fit for them that it seems unusual to see a halfling cleric, dwarven rogue, or elven warrior.

PHB races DO get immunities (elves to sleep) and spell-like abilities higher than level 1 - gnomes and speak with animals. Two of them get darkvision. Dwarves are suited to being fighters and halflings are suited to being rogues. Dwarves get very strong save bonuses, and dwarves and gnomes get dodge bonuses against some common creatures. I don't think you can rule out resistances or armor bonuses to LA creatures. I don't think the favored class thing is such a big deal, either. Still, I see where you are coming from. Personally I don't think genasi should get skill bonuses. They don't have their own cultures, after all, and I wouldn't feel secure giving them skill bonuses based on the classical attributes of the elemental types. I do like both of your suggestions for skills, however.

Here is a new try for a LA genasi. I am keeping the same stat adjustments. I can give an explanation for them if you want. Also I just learned that in 3.5 spells actually have element descriptors, so I have taken that into account. I didn't give them their elemental languages as automatic since they are theoretically raised by humans.

"Genasi are the distant descendants of a human and some elemental being. This being could have been any intelligent creature with an elemental subtype, including many outsiders, some giants, and even polymorphed dragons. Traces of the unusual ancestor are no longer visible in the line except for the occasional child born with an inherent connection to one of the elemental planes."

-Genasi are considered to be human for the purpose of spells and effect.
-Elemental subtype. Genasi have the subtype of their element and may be turned or rebuked by a cleric with the appropriate domain.
-Clerical focus.
-Elemental bloodline. If a genasi has a spellcasting class that does not prepare spells, he may not choose a spell with an elemental descriptor different than his own as one of his spells known for that class.
-Elemental affinity. All genasi gain a +2 racial bonus to Charisma checks involving creatures of their elemental subtype.
-Base speed: 30'.

Fire genasi: +2 Cha, -2 Wis
- Fire resistance 5.
- Fire genasi receive +1 racial bonus to save vs. fire spells and effects. This bonus increases by +1 every fifth level.
- +2 racial bonus to Intimidate checks.
- Fire genasi are especially susceptible to the privations of hunger, since, like fire, they require constant refueling. They can only go half the normal number of days without food before beginning to take subdual damage from hunger.
- Favored class: Fighter

Water genasi: +2 Wis, -2 Int
-Water genasi breathe water.
-Water genasi have a swim speed of 30.
-Water genasi receive a +1 racial bonus to saves vs. water and cold spells and effects, which increases by +1 every 5th level.
-+2 racial bonus to Heal checks.
-Water genasi are especially susceptible to dehydration. They take one-and-a-half times the normal subdual damage from dehydration. Besides drinking fresh water, a water genasi can also rehydrate through total immersion in saltwater.
-Favored class: Cleric

Air genasi: +2 Int, +2 Dex, -2 Con, -2 Str
-(Sp) An air genasi may cast feather fall 1/day on himself only as a sorcerer of his class level.
- Air genasi receive a +1 racial bonus to saves vs. air and electricity spells and effects, which increases by +1 every 5th level.
-+1 racial bonus to all Knowledge checks.
-Air genasi are especially susceptible to lack of air. They can only hold their breaths half the normal amount of time.
- Favored class: bard

Earth genasi: +2 Str, +2 Con, -2 Dex, -2 Cha
- Stability: Earth genasi gain a +4 bonus on ability checks made to resist being bull rushed or tripped when standing on the ground (but not when climbing, flying, riding, or otherwise not standing firmly on the ground).
- Earth genasi receive a +1 racial bonus to saves vs. earth and acid spells and effects, which increases by +1 every 5th level.
- Earth genasi receive a +1 racial bonus to all Craft checks.
- Earth genasi are especially susceptible to injuries sustained from falling through the air. They take one-and-a-half times the normal damage sustained from falls.
- Favored class: fighter

 

[Technik4]

I like these more, I think taking away the outsider (native) part is a good move to help making them LA 0. I realise that you were going for all the bonuses to cover the spectrum of ability scores, but some of your match-ups are just really strong.

Look at fire genasi. Now put him next to the regular phb races. If you are making a sorceror, you will pick fire genasi say 8 out of 10 times. Not only is he great flavor for a sorceror, but he is very fire resistant (the most common energy and element).

I think the same thing can be said for all of your genasi, they are simply too good at what they do. An earth genasi beats out a half-orc in many respects for the warrior race, and while he's at it, he is quite competitive with the strength bonus. Its easy to see the Air Genasi as a Tiefling without a level adjustment (even though it isn't quite that good).

As far as PC races, yes elves get immunity to sleep. There are (now) 2 sleep spells and maybe 2 or 3 other sleep effects in the game. If you are immune to purple magic but only encounter it at very low levels or not at all, how good is that immunity? Every race has something they are good at saving against, this is roughly mirrored by the genasi's increasing elemental save bonus. In some cases it isn't as good (the dwarf, obviously) but in others it stacks up nicely (fear, illusions).

Dwarves and gnomes get dodge bonuses against giants. This is not comprable to giving a race natural armor for 0 LA. While they are both AC bonuses, one is only applicable against a small number of encounters. I see that you've removed it anyway.

Another way I was thinking about making the genasi is to give them all a stat increase in the same area, for instance charisma. Naturally this would be better suited for genasi with LA adjustments.

Overall I think your versions would work alright if used with FRCS many sub-races, and perhaps add an option to get the native outsider part (and with it weapon proficiency simple and martial, darkvision, and perhaps an increase in resistance to your element) for LA +1.

Technik

 

[FrankTrollman]

Earth Genasi are descended from Dao, and Water Genasi are descended from Marid.

Although I agree that they desperately need some kind of schtick to tie them in with their supposed Genie heritage.

---

Of course, unless spell-like abilities scale like the Half-Fiend's do, no 1st level spell is going to justify a level adjustment.

-Frank

 

[Urbannen]

Look at fire genasi. Now put him next to the regular phb races. If you are making a sorceror, you will pick fire genasi say 8 out of 10 times. Not only is he great flavor for a sorceror, but he is very fire resistant (the most common energy and element).

I think the same thing can be said for all of your genasi, they are simply too good at what they do. An earth genasi beats out a half-orc in many respects for the warrior race, and while he's at it, he is quite competitive with the strength bonus. Its easy to see the Air Genasi as a Tiefling without a level adjustment (even though it isn't quite that good).

So essentially no +0 LA race should get +2 to Wis, Int, Cha, or Str. +0 LA might be okay for Str, but only if the race is inferior in every other way. I can see where this philosophy comes from, since this is the philosophy of the PHB. Elves and halflings both get +2 Dex, dwarves and gnomes get +2 Con, humans and half-elves get nothing, and half-orcs get +2 Str, two stat penalties, and almost nothing else. You are right. With this philosophy, these races can never be +0 LA.

This philosophy is unnecessarily limiting IMO. In later products they broke with this philosophy by making Sun elves and Wood elves. I don't see anything wrong with putting some extra weight on a positive Wis, Int, Cha, or Str modifier, but it shouldn't automatically give a race a LA. Jumping through hoops to make a +2 Int race not want to become a wizard is also unnecessary, IMO. What do you get for +2 to your spellcasting stat? You get 1 extra spell at some point, +5% to your spells' DCs, and someday it gives you access to high level spells. In the case of a sorcerer, one extra spell per day is hardly any benefit at all, considering the large numbers they already get. For clerics, wizards, and druids, this benefit is chiefly good for a span of two levels, when the bonus spell is in their highest level spell slot. As for the saves, it means that, all things being equal, one time out of twenty a target of a spell will fail a save he otherwise would have made. That's not breaking the game. And as characters reach higher levels, their access to higher level spells is usually assured anyway.
If the concern is that everyone wanting to play a spellcaster will want to play a race with the salient mental stat bonus, it is somewhat valid. However there are already some races that are discouraged from being members of certain spellcasting classes. Who is going to play a dwarven sorcerer or a half-orc wizard or bard? I think that even with the choice a +2 Cha fire genasi, human would still be an excellent choice for sorcerer (indeed, it's the only PHB race I would play as a sorcerer). Comparing the two, I see that humans get an extra feat and extra skill points. I see the fire genasi gets +5% to his spell DCs, good resistance to fire, and a penalty to Will saves and Wisdom skills (with an extra spell at some point, +2 to Intimidate, and some problem with hunger). Also multiclassing is less restricted for the human, meaning the fire genasi sorcerer probably isn't going to want to take two levels of rogue just to get evasion. Frankly it's a toss up. A fire genasi sorcerer is cool, but he still wouldn't just drop a fireball on himself at point blank range with just his fire resistance to protect him. And the human's extra feat and skill points are very tempting. Obviously I wouldn't choose either a dwarf or a half-orc thanks to the PHB authors.

I guess my motto is "loosen up." Accept positive mental stat adjustments, but also give them some extra weight when assigning abilities to your race.

Another thing is that the genasi's saving throw bonuses seem less useful than dwarves' bonuses vs. all spells, elves bonuses vs. Enchantments, and halflings' bonuses vs. everything. I removed the natural AC bonus to the earth genasi. It now suffers an overall -1 to AC. I agree the +1 natural bonus was too much considering its strength in combat already. I was thinking about lowering its movement rate as well. I wish I could choose Expert or something as its favored class.

BTW, if genasi get simple and martial weapon proficiency in 3.5 as native outsiders, then they would have to have a level adjustment. That's just really too good. It's also silly, IMO.

I've revised my classes a bit, fiddling with some skills too. I am making water genasi clerics even more potentially powerful by increasing the power of their Death attacks (inspired by Scorpio, ruler of the 8th house, the house of Death).

-Genasi are considered to be human for the purpose of spells and effect.
-Elemental subtype. Genasi have the subtype of their element and may be turned or rebuked by a cleric with the appropriate domain.
-Clerical focus.
-Elemental bloodline. If a genasi has a spellcasting class that does not prepare spells, he may not choose a spell with an elemental descriptor different than his own as one of his spells known for that class.
-Elemental affinity. All genasi gain a +2 racial bonus to Charisma checks involving creatures of their elemental subtype.
-Base speed: 30'.
-Elemental homecoming. Even though few are aware of it, all genasi subconsciously long for their respective elemental plane. Genasi are able to survive unaided on their respective elemental plane and gain the following characteristics, only while on their respective elemental plane: Air genasi gain fly speed 60' and perfect maneuverability. Fire genasi gain immunity to fire. Earth genasi gain the pass through earth ability of a xorn. Water genasi's swim speed is increased to 60'.

Fire genasi: +2 Cha, -2 Wis
- Fire resistance 5.
- Fire genasi receive +1 racial bonus to save vs. fire spells and effects. This bonus increases by +1 every fifth level.
-+2 racial bonus to Intimidate checks (negative aspect of fire signs).
- Fire genasi are especially susceptible to the privations of hunger, since, like fire, they require constant refueling. They can only go half the normal number of days without food before beginning to take subdual damage from hunger.
- Favored class: Fighter (Aries)

Water genasi: +2 Wis, -2 Int
-Water genasi can breathe water.
-Water genasi have a swim speed of 30.
-Water genasi receive a +1 racial bonus to saves vs. water and cold spells and effects, which increases by +1 every 5th level.
-+2 racial bonus to Heal checks. (nurturing aspect of water signs)
-The DC of any of a water genasi's death spells, abilities, or effects (such as an assassin's death attack) is increased by +1. (Scorpio, negative aspect of water signs)
-Water genais are considered to be water elementals for the purpose of the horrid wilting spell.
-Water genasi are especially susceptible to dehydration. They take one-and-a-half times the normal subdual damage from dehydration. Besides drinking fresh water, a water genasi can also rehydrate through total immersion in saltwater.
-Favored class: Cleric

Air genasi: +2 Int, +2 Dex, -2 Con, -2 Str
-(Sp) An air genasi may cast feather fall on himself only 1/day as a sorcerer of his character level.
- Air genasi receive a +1 racial bonus to saves vs. air and electricity spells and effects, which increases by +1 every 5th level.
-+2 racial bonus to Jump (natural bouyancy), Listen (sounds in the air), and Diplomacy (Libra) checks.
-Whenever an air genasi is the target of a spell or effect that grants her the power of flight, she gains a racial bonus of +10 to her flight speed.
-Air genasi are especially susceptible to lack of air. They can only hold their breaths half the normal amount of time.
- Favored class: bard (Gemini)

Earth genasi: +2 Str, +2 Con, -2 Dex, -2 Cha
- Stability: Earth genasi gain a +4 bonus on ability checks made to resist being bull rushed or tripped when standing on the ground (but not when climbing, flying, riding, or otherwise not standing firmly on the ground).
- Earth genasi receive a +1 racial bonus to saves vs. earth and acid spells and effects, which increases by +1 every 5th level.
- Earth genasi receive a +1 racial bonus to all Craft checks (Virgo) and a +2 racial bonus to all Appraise checks (Capricorn).
- Earth genasi are especially susceptible to injuries sustained from falling through the air. They take one-and-a-half times the normal damage sustained from falls.
- Favored class: fighter