Dexterity: Mental or Physical Stat?

[Roman]

Do you consider Dexterity to be a mental or physical attribute?

Traditionally, it seems to be considered a physical attribute, but ask any neurologist (I did) and he/she will tell you that balance, aim, precision and most other factors ( in fact, all factors I can think of except flexibility) generally considered to constitute dexterity depend far more on neurological factors than on 'bodily' factors. So should dexterity not be considered a mental stat more than a physical one? Or should it be both, or neither?

 

[med stud]

I placed it as a physical ability while D&D dexterity has many physical applications (acrobatics, AC) and that it would take physical activity to train up dexterity to a high level. But I see where you are coming from; it reminds me of when I had to stat up the worlds best gem cutter who had only one leg. His hand-eye coordination was excellent but his AC, acrobatics and move silently would be very different.

 

[Ottergame]

Physical.

Strength, consitution, and dexterity and PURELY physical, they don't really depend on the mind to function. Intelligence, wisdom, and charisma are purely mental. You're body could be twisted into a preztel and all your bones could be broken, and your mental stats wouldn't be harmed in the least. Mental quickness is a part of wisdom.

 

[Agemegos]

ask any neurologist (I did) and he/she will tell you that balance, aim, precision and most other factors ( in fact, all factors I can think of except flexibility) generally considered to constitute dexterity depend far more on neurological factors than on 'bodily' factors.

Umm. Is modern neurology the appropriate standard? It is reaching for a physical explanation of mental processes, which in a D&D world are definitely a function of the immaterial soul and not of the all-too-physical nervous system. 'Trap the Soul' doesn't suck out the brain and nerves, so I'm counting Dexterity as a physical stat.

 

[Mark]

While I understand what is being asked and said, I agree with the idea that for D&D game purposes, it is and should be considered physical. Maybe in another game...

 

[The Sigil]

Do you consider Dexterity to be a mental or physical attribute?

Traditionally, it seems to be considered a physical attribute, but ask any neurologist (I did) and he/she will tell you that balance, aim, precision and most other factors ( in fact, all factors I can think of except flexibility) generally considered to constitute dexterity depend far more on neurological factors than on 'bodily' factors. So should dexterity not be considered a mental stat more than a physical one? Or should it be both, or neither?

It may be neurological factors in play, but these neurological factors apply to your ability to function, interact with, and otherwise affect the physical world. This, IMO, makes it a physical attribute - not because it has no basis in neurology, but because it's a quantification of a person's ability to interact with the physical world.

Intelligence, for example, represents a charcter's ability to understand abstract concepts like "time" and "space" but does not help someone physically navigate and object through time and space (e.g., hitting a target at a distance or dodging obstacles) - the classic example is the clumsy nerd who can teach you all about the geometry of billiards but can't hit the cue ball to take advantage of that knowledge. Dexterity measures the character's ability to navigate an object (including the body) through time and space - a character with no ability to understand abstract concepts like "time" and "space" can still have a great ability to maneuver himself or object through time and space - the classic example is the "dumb jock" who can hit a three-point shot or throw a football 50 yards with pinpoint accuracy even though he couldn't count to three or count enough yard lines to tell you he had thrown 50 yards.

Basically, in D&D, physical abilities are metrics of a character's ability to interact with the physical realm. Dexterity measures that, hence, it is a physical ability, regardless of the "ultimate source" of that ability.

It is overbroad, in that a skilled piano player (high Dex in his hands) might be an uncoordinated buffoon in a game of dodgeball, or a skilled ballet dancer might be unable to tie his/her own shoes. Gross motor control and fine motor control are two different sets of skills, yet are lumped under Dexterity.

--The Sigil

 

[Agemegos]

But I see where you are coming from; it reminds me of when I had to stat up the worlds best gem cutter who had only one leg. His hand-eye coordination was excellent but his AC, acrobatics and move silently would be very different.

That more goes to the question of whether D&D ought to recognise the distinction between agility and manual dexerity. It does however suggest this question: "Ought cutting off a characters' feet and thumbs to affect his or her mental attributes?"

 

[Sejs]

All attributes involve the mind on some level, be it how you apply your strength thru movement and position, your hand-eye coordination, or your tolerence for pain.

In D&D, dexterity is a physical attribute - if you magic jar some guy, you gain access to his dexterity, while keeping your mind. His body's flexibility, range of motion and reaction time can be vastly different from your own. Your mind being in control of his body doesn't change how his body has learned to act or react on an unconscious level. Your mind can't tell his limbs to flex further, his muscles to twitch faster, or teach his reflex arcs new patterns they're not familiar with even if it can tell the body to walk over here and pick up this rock.

 

[med stud]

That more goes to the question of whether D&D ought to recognise the distinction between agility and manual dexerity. It does however suggest this question: "Ought cutting off a characters' feet and thumbs to affect his or her mental attributes?"

Yes that was my problem. I solved the problem by giving negative circumstance bonuses to all physical activities involving the leg. Then I moved over Acrobatics from Dexterity to Strength while Jump and Climb already are Strength-based. Still Dexterity and Constitution are the hardest two abilities to get a hold on what they really mean IMO.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Strength includes:
Hand eye coordination (improves chances to hit)
Muscle power (improves damage)

Dexterity includes
Hand eye coordination (improves chances to hit)
Muscle power (improves ability to move body around)

Why? Strong muscles = more force = more acceleration = better control characteristics (ie coordination).

In short, like all other stats in D&D, strength and dexterity are not independantly measureable in the real world. They're game constructs which serve a purpose within the game.

I'd suggest for stuff like crippling injuries or the like, penalise the character whenever you think he should be penalised, not by saying "all dex-based checks at -2" or even "all climb checks at -2".