Desecrate and creating classed undead (permanent extra hitpoints)

[eamon]

This spell imbues an area with negative energy. Each Charisma check made to turn undead within this area takes a -3 profane penalty, and every undead creature entering a desecrated area gains a +1 profane bonus on attack rolls, damage rolls, and saving throws. An undead creature created within or summoned into such an area gains +1 hit points per HD.

Desecrate grants bonuses to undead while they're within its area. Most interesting is the bonus it grants to hitpoints since that seems to be permanent - or more precisely, instantaneous: when the undead creature is created, its hitpoints are determined.

Is that interpretation correct? Can dispel magic remove these bonus hitpoints?

If a lich were to create himself while in such an area, he - like other undead - presumably would benefit from the spell. What if he later gains more hit-dice - does he gain bonus hitpoints for those hitdice as well? (This applies equally to vampires and other frequently advanced undead, and esp. to PC-playable undead).

 

[eamon]

As a follow-up question, the damage bonus seems to apply to all damage rolls. Does this include things like a lich casting fireball, or a lich's negative energy damage-dealing touch attack?

 

[eamon]

No opinions on how to handle permanent bonus hit-points from desecrate?

 

[shilsen]

Desecrate grants bonuses to undead while they're within its area. Most interesting is the bonus it grants to hitpoints since that seems to be permanent - or more precisely, instantaneous: when the undead creature is created, its hitpoints are determined.

Is that interpretation correct?

Yes.

Can dispel magic remove these bonus hitpoints?

No.

If a lich were to create himself while in such an area, he - like other undead - presumably would benefit from the spell. What if he later gains more hit-dice - does he gain bonus hitpoints for those hitdice as well? (This applies equally to vampires and other frequently advanced undead, and esp. to PC-playable undead).

Yes.

As a follow-up question, the damage bonus seems to apply to all damage rolls. Does this include things like a lich casting fireball, or a lich's negative energy damage-dealing touch attack?

When spells reference bonuses to damage, they almost exclusively refer to damage inflicted by weapons in combat and not spells. So I'd allow it to apply to the lich's touch attack but not to the fireball.

 

[evilbob]

I agree completely with shilsen - I think he summed it up nicely.

 

[eamon]

I agree completely with shilsen - I think he summed it up nicely.

That's kind of the direction I was leaning - except, it does mean it's possible to gain quite a few extra hit points without any significant extra cost. Oh well, I guess it's not a big problem.

 

[evilbob]

You are very right. The only cost associated with it is 50gp's worth of material components and finding a level 3+ evil cleric to cast it. The only downside is that a lich is likely to be an arcane caster and not have ready access to cleric spells - but then again, how hard would it be for a powerful, high-level caster to find a 3rd level cleric to cast the spell a couple times?

(It also means that the best necromancers are probably going to be divine casters: they get animate dead earlier and desecrate to boot!)

 

[Pyrex]

Any arcane necromancer pondering Lichdom could just replicate that Desecrate with a Limited Wish. 300xp is a bargain for ~15 or more extra HP.

 

[Tiberius]

(It also means that the best necromancers are probably going to be divine casters: they get animate dead earlier and desecrate to boot!)

The real kicker there is the ability to rebuke undead. Arcane necromancers are wussy by comparison.

 

[Kavok]

On a side note, if you are playing an undead PC is there anyway to protect yourself from disruption weapons? DC14 will-or-die is pretty scary.