Demons, devils and Celestials?

[Hawkeye]

One of the big switches that TSR did between 1st and 2nd editions was to change the name of Demons and Devils to T'narri and Baatazeu (sp?) This was in direct response to negative publicity at the time about the use of the words Demons and Devils. However, to the best of my knoweldge the word Celestial has always been used, though Celestials are most certainly angels. Now we are back to the old terms, but Celestial has never changed. Anyone know why Celestials were nver called angels?

Hawkeye

 

[Mark]

Aside from the colloquial usage of the term angel, meaning a financial backer, or the euphemistic usage, to attribute a person with the qualities of an angel, I believe that the term is tied rather singularly to monotheistic, real world religion to mean a messenger of God (capital "G"). On the other hand, I do believe that the terms of devils and demons have a watered-down meaning of any evil spirit and perhaps celestial, meaning generally heavenly(?), are used as terms by many faiths and cultures, and in mythological writings, in a less specific manner. *shrug* To answer the question, "To close to home..?"

 

[Monte At Home]

Actually, celestials weren't called anything collectively until the last part of 2nd edition.

They weren't called angels at the time for the same reason that TSR didn't call demons, "demons." (A mostly faulty assumption that such a step--big in a gamer's mind, small in a non-gamer's mind--would appease the game's opponents.)

In Malhavoc Press products, I call them angels.

 

[Erik Mona]

Green Ronin's "Book of Fiends" series uses both terms. The stuff I wrote in Legions of Hell (Fallen Celestials, etc.) uses "angel" and "angelic" dozens of times.

--Erik

 

[megamania]

I suspect they avioded using the "term" angel since the same people whom would be offended by demons and devils would be affended that a term they would think of as holy was used in a "satanic game".
Just my thought.

"Your mind works like a parachute- only when it's open"

 

[arwink]

I tend to favor the term celestial over angel, although I'm known to use both in game.

The main problem, for me, is that people tend to have a very firm idea in their heads about what an angel is, and that doesn't necessarily fit with a lantern archon, hound archon or variety of other celestials, so it can get tricky in description. Angel mostly gets used to describe the winged, humanoid types, preferably with big swords

Further, I prefer the number of sylabils and sounds in Celestial. It's a strange reason, I know, but celestial is just more fun to say.

 

[Alzrius]

I personally really enjoyed the way the names for Upper and Lower planar creatures was at the end of second edition. "Celestials" was the catch-all (and probably Primer Material) term for Upper planar beings, and they didn't mind being called that at all.

On the other hand, if you called a Tanar'ri a "demon" or a Baatezu a "devil" you had just used a racial slur, and should probably turn and run really fast. (Odd how it was never mentioned if Yugoloths were upset by being called "daemons" though.)

In third edition, its changed so that now, anything from the Abyss is a demon (with Tanar'ri being a sub-"family" of demons) and anything from Baator is a devil (with Baatezu being a sub-"family" of devils).

Celestials though have just always been celestials (since the term was used in D&D). As near as I recall, "Angels" refers to the LG celestials of Mt. Celestia (the Seven Heavens).

 

[BOZ]

"celestial" works best as a catch-all, as "fiends" does with the lower planar monsters. i can see archons and aasimons (solars, planetars, devas) as angels, but eladrins and guardinals just don't fit my conception.

 

[BOZ]

LOL those were nearly the same post at the same time, just worded differently... spot on, alzrius!

 

[Alzrius]

Say it BOZ! We rock!