Defeating a Great Wyrm Force Dragon

[Rethalgamon]

I was reading the Epic Level Handbook, and came across the entries for epic dragons.

I was dumbfounded at some numbers for a Great Wyrm Force Dragon:

Name: Great Wyrm Force Dragon
Size: Colossal+
HD: 75d12+1,875 (2,362 HP)
AC: 102 (–8 size,+26 deflection, +74 natural)
AB: +99
Fort.:+64
Refl.:+39
Will: +65
Breath Weapon: 60d12 (72)
Fear DC: 73
Spell Resistance: 57
Speed: 60Ft., Fly 350 ft.
STR: 75
DEX: 10
CON: 61
INT: 62
WIS: 63
CHA: 62
Special Abilities: Damage Reduction 60/+12, Otiluke's telekinetic Sphere, invisibility, Immune to force
Caster Level: 36

My question now:

How in the hell could this thing be destroyed (besides with something like Pun-Pun or Divine Intervention)? How it even be possible to survive against such a creature? Have fun pondering; I'm trying to think of something as well.

 

[Runestar]

It is also a hefty cr59, so in theory, a lv59 party should find/make a way somehow. If anything, there is still epic spellcasting to fall back on...

 

[frankthedm]

I was reading the Epic Level Handbook, and ...

I was dumbfounded

Yep plenty of dumb to be found in that book!

How in the hell could this thing be destroyed (besides with something like Pun-Pun or Divine Intervention)? How it even be possible to survive against such a creature? Have fun pondering; I'm trying to think of something as well.

Well, first one must know the capabilities of a level 55+ party. Chances are, those characters ARE the divine intervention!

Though sadly I bet it is painfully easy to attack that dex score.

 

[Rethalgamon]

I wasn't thinking about taking the party's level up to 59... i was trying to keep it at 30. But you're right, a 55+ party could destroy it, and they're the divine intervention, anyway, lol.

Hrm. Keeping the party level at 30... no, 40, would it be possible to defeat this creature?

 

[prospero63]

IMO Great Wyrms sit somewhere below greater gods in the food chain. That means that even lesser gods aren't guaranteed to take them out. I know that in my game I can't really envision a scenario where a party could successfully destroy one. Defeat? maybe. Kill? probably not (but never say never...)

For example (my players, stop reading now...)

I don't roll HP for dragons. Ever. So for example a red great wyrm starts with 480HP. They are always "named bad guys" so they use the same point buy the players do. Then they get the ability bonuses per the creature. That quickly results in well over 1000HP, and that's without any epic stuff (as others have mentioned, I'm not a big fan of that book and don't use it). From there you start customizing feats, spells, etc. and they quickly become the baddest things around. Literally, they fear nothing in the mortal realm. That said, I can count the great wyrms in my world on two hands, and that's for ALL dragon colors...

 

[javcs]

I wasn't thinking about taking the party's level up to 59... i was trying to keep it at 30. But you're right, a 55+ party could destroy it, and they're the divine intervention, anyway, lol.

Hrm. Keeping the party level at 30... no, 40, would it be possible to defeat this creature?

Depends on what kind of party it is, and just which books are allowed for the players to use. And how much cheese the DM allows.
But ... theoretically speaking, of course, yes, it is possible, provided that the players are quality powergamers with enough books allowed. Likely or easy to do? Not at levels 30-40.

If the party is only levels 30-40 .. don't chuck a great wyrm force dragon at them if you want them to have a viable chance to not get horribly slaughtered. Have them meet a younger one, or a different kind of dragon, one of an age category where it is an EL-Appropriate creature.

Though, as Frank noted, the Dex score is a massive vulnerability, if someone can field a no-save, no-SR Dexterity drain, damage, or penalty effect in excess of 10. Which, if you're epic levels ... shouldn't be too difficult to find a way to do that reliably.

Granted, at a level where a Great Wyrm Force Dragon is at least a moderately appropriate encounter for that level ... I could probably build a character that would effectively be undetectable by said dragon, and a character that could possibly seriously damage (maybe even kill, with lucky rolls) said dragon in melee, if the dragon didn't have time to buff. This is, of course, assuming that I'm building a character without limitations on what WotC books I can use.

 

[Corsair]

Maximized + Empowered Shivering touch. Crappy touch AC. Crappy dex. In short order, you'll have a lump of motionless goo with lots of HP.


For the warriors, I imagine an appropriate level party should have easy access to items that grant Wraithstrike-like abilities. 74 natural armor? Useless.

 

[Shin Okada]

Maximized + Empowered Shivering touch. Crappy touch AC. Crappy dex. In short order, you'll have a lump of motionless goo with lots of HP.

For the warriors, I imagine an appropriate level party should have easy access to items that grant Wraithstrike-like abilities. 74 natural armor? Useless.

If PCs are allowed to use Shivering Touch, DM should also use 3.5e supplements, too. And of course, the dragon has Awaken Spell Resistance feat and now his SR is 75+.

But anyway, if that is a 3.5e epic campaign, I expect PC mage has some epic version non-SR damage spells (Epic Orb or something?).

 

[pawsplay]

Twinned ego whip. Even if it makes both saves, its Cha is over half gone. If it fails either one, it's dazed. It's not as direct as attacking Dex but is a lot easier to pull off in some ways.

 

[Drowbane]

Round 0 Scry
Round 1 Teleport, Celerity, Shivering Touch-Maximized.
Round 2+ wraith-strike/Coup'd'Grace at your leisure. Level up x10 (Yeah, I know you can only get 1 lvl per session or whatever... but you get the idea), Enjoy Hoard.

Do-able as soon as lvl... 11, 12?