Oryan77
Adventurer
Is it bad form for a DM that doesn't powergame to nit-pick the small stuff in the game just to attempt to have some kind of impact against players that powergame?
I hate to say it, but a powergamer in the group is really starting to bother me. I've talked to him a few times letting him know that I don't powergame and I don't have time to read spells/feats/skills/PrC's in every book to optimize my NPC's the way he does for his PC. Most of my time is spent creating ideas for the campaign and quickly creating dozens of NPC's & monsters for them to encounter. I try to make the best NPC's I can with the knowledge & time that I have. But my character builds are nothing compared to what a powergamer can do.
I've let him know in the past that the more he powergames his PC to make him stronger than an above average player could do, it's going to cause me to have to throw higher CR encounters at the group which is unfair to the less strategic/powergamey players. And frankly, building an encounter just to match the power of a single PC is not what I enjoy doing as a DM anyway.
Yet, he still insists on powergaming (probably unintentional because that's what he enjoys out of D&D), and since his wife is fairly new to D&D, he even powergames her PC for her each time they level up.
I don't mind optimized characters, I encourage players to build well built PC's. But it's bothering me now because this guy will build one aspect of his PC really powerful which causes the PC to be weaker in other areas...but then he tries to find ways to "band-aid" the weaker areas. Since he does the same thing with his wifes PC, she now is trying to find ways to "band-aid" her PC's downfalls (with his help).
My latest example would be her Archer PC. He helped her build an archer that uses her bow & only her bow to fight in ranged & melee attacks without suffering any side-effects (like AoO's ect). I found out she wasn't keeping up with her arrow inventory, so I reminded her to do so. Since she never uses a melee weapon, & she shoots 2-3 arrows a round, she's realizing now that she can run out of arrows fast, even with owning a magic quiver that stores 60 arrows & finding her used arrows at the 50% chance. So instead of thinking about conserving arrows & switching to her sword on occasion, they are trying to figure a way for her to always be fully stocked on arrows. Even though I don't have magic item shops, she determined to buy a bag of holding. They said if that's not an option, they want her to take crafting skills to make her own arrows when they rest at camp at night. This is just one example of many things I deal with like this...beefing up a characters strongpoints & then problem solving a way to fix the downside effects.
Something happend last session that is bothering me the more I think about it. The powergamer rarely ever gets into the roleplaying scenarios. I encourage roleplaying but I understand it's not everyones cup of tea, I'm ok with that. His nose is usually in his D&D books while people are roleplaying with NPC's. But last game, while they were trying to figure out what to do with an evil artifact, he speaks up and starts suggesting that they go find his gods realm (Planescape game) and ask his god what to do. When I tell him gods don't necessarily care about mortal affairs, even if it's about an evil artifact, he suggests that they at least go find a Solar that works for his god and ask it for help. I thought, "Wow, he's really getting into this plotline now, and he even thought about meeting his god & even mentioned a SOLAR of all things!" Unfortunately, the players wouldn't know it but I figured their PC's would know (and I didn't want them to get upset for wasting their time trying), so I tell them that going to a gods realm isn't as easy as just finding where he lives and knocking on the front door. So even finding a Solar proxy of his god could be just as difficult. But man, I was excited that he even thought of it and was getting involved in the campaign.
My excitement came crashing down about 20 minutes later when they decided to travel to Sigil to find someone there that might help them with the artifact. When they began their task in Sigil, the powergamer casually mentions, "Dang, visiting my god or speaking to a Solar is a requirement for me to get this PrC when I hit 11th level". I looked at him, & to my surprise, another player (he's also a powergamer, but he keeps it under control for my sake and he participates in the roleplaying) also looked at him and said basically the same thing I did, "What! that's the reason you suggested we find your god!?! You didn't care about the artifact, you had an agenda which was to just gain more cool stuff for your character!"
That bummed me out. I already feel bad for cracking down on little things like keeping up with arrows just to have some control over powergaming, and I've thought about implementing other stupid criteria in an attempt to have control & curb a little of the powergaming going on. But this sucks. I hate that I feel like I need to do things just because players go out of their way to thwart my attempt to challenge them. It's the whole "difference of playstyles" affecting me here and I don't want to make an issue about things, it always causes problems in the group. But I know my skills as a DM and the more this goes on, the more I'll lose control of the campaign and not be on the same power level as the players. I'm worried that eventually they'll tweak their PC's so much that they'll plow through any encounter because I'm not knowledgable enough with NPC optimization to come up with ways to challenge them.
Any advice other than simply "talking" with him? I've done that and I know I may still need to talk again. I just don't want anyone to feel like I'm coming down on them...I hate drama and I don't want a conversation about a hobby to ruin the groups spirit. Am I at fault here? Do I have the right to feel annoyed by this & wanting to crack down on a thing as piddly as arrow inventory? Or am I being unfair & too hard on the players?
I hate to say it, but a powergamer in the group is really starting to bother me. I've talked to him a few times letting him know that I don't powergame and I don't have time to read spells/feats/skills/PrC's in every book to optimize my NPC's the way he does for his PC. Most of my time is spent creating ideas for the campaign and quickly creating dozens of NPC's & monsters for them to encounter. I try to make the best NPC's I can with the knowledge & time that I have. But my character builds are nothing compared to what a powergamer can do.
I've let him know in the past that the more he powergames his PC to make him stronger than an above average player could do, it's going to cause me to have to throw higher CR encounters at the group which is unfair to the less strategic/powergamey players. And frankly, building an encounter just to match the power of a single PC is not what I enjoy doing as a DM anyway.
Yet, he still insists on powergaming (probably unintentional because that's what he enjoys out of D&D), and since his wife is fairly new to D&D, he even powergames her PC for her each time they level up.
I don't mind optimized characters, I encourage players to build well built PC's. But it's bothering me now because this guy will build one aspect of his PC really powerful which causes the PC to be weaker in other areas...but then he tries to find ways to "band-aid" the weaker areas. Since he does the same thing with his wifes PC, she now is trying to find ways to "band-aid" her PC's downfalls (with his help).
My latest example would be her Archer PC. He helped her build an archer that uses her bow & only her bow to fight in ranged & melee attacks without suffering any side-effects (like AoO's ect). I found out she wasn't keeping up with her arrow inventory, so I reminded her to do so. Since she never uses a melee weapon, & she shoots 2-3 arrows a round, she's realizing now that she can run out of arrows fast, even with owning a magic quiver that stores 60 arrows & finding her used arrows at the 50% chance. So instead of thinking about conserving arrows & switching to her sword on occasion, they are trying to figure a way for her to always be fully stocked on arrows. Even though I don't have magic item shops, she determined to buy a bag of holding. They said if that's not an option, they want her to take crafting skills to make her own arrows when they rest at camp at night. This is just one example of many things I deal with like this...beefing up a characters strongpoints & then problem solving a way to fix the downside effects.
Something happend last session that is bothering me the more I think about it. The powergamer rarely ever gets into the roleplaying scenarios. I encourage roleplaying but I understand it's not everyones cup of tea, I'm ok with that. His nose is usually in his D&D books while people are roleplaying with NPC's. But last game, while they were trying to figure out what to do with an evil artifact, he speaks up and starts suggesting that they go find his gods realm (Planescape game) and ask his god what to do. When I tell him gods don't necessarily care about mortal affairs, even if it's about an evil artifact, he suggests that they at least go find a Solar that works for his god and ask it for help. I thought, "Wow, he's really getting into this plotline now, and he even thought about meeting his god & even mentioned a SOLAR of all things!" Unfortunately, the players wouldn't know it but I figured their PC's would know (and I didn't want them to get upset for wasting their time trying), so I tell them that going to a gods realm isn't as easy as just finding where he lives and knocking on the front door. So even finding a Solar proxy of his god could be just as difficult. But man, I was excited that he even thought of it and was getting involved in the campaign.
My excitement came crashing down about 20 minutes later when they decided to travel to Sigil to find someone there that might help them with the artifact. When they began their task in Sigil, the powergamer casually mentions, "Dang, visiting my god or speaking to a Solar is a requirement for me to get this PrC when I hit 11th level". I looked at him, & to my surprise, another player (he's also a powergamer, but he keeps it under control for my sake and he participates in the roleplaying) also looked at him and said basically the same thing I did, "What! that's the reason you suggested we find your god!?! You didn't care about the artifact, you had an agenda which was to just gain more cool stuff for your character!"
That bummed me out. I already feel bad for cracking down on little things like keeping up with arrows just to have some control over powergaming, and I've thought about implementing other stupid criteria in an attempt to have control & curb a little of the powergaming going on. But this sucks. I hate that I feel like I need to do things just because players go out of their way to thwart my attempt to challenge them. It's the whole "difference of playstyles" affecting me here and I don't want to make an issue about things, it always causes problems in the group. But I know my skills as a DM and the more this goes on, the more I'll lose control of the campaign and not be on the same power level as the players. I'm worried that eventually they'll tweak their PC's so much that they'll plow through any encounter because I'm not knowledgable enough with NPC optimization to come up with ways to challenge them.
Any advice other than simply "talking" with him? I've done that and I know I may still need to talk again. I just don't want anyone to feel like I'm coming down on them...I hate drama and I don't want a conversation about a hobby to ruin the groups spirit. Am I at fault here? Do I have the right to feel annoyed by this & wanting to crack down on a thing as piddly as arrow inventory? Or am I being unfair & too hard on the players?
