D&D 5E Dark Gifts from the Amber Temple and being "coerced"

[Hatox]

Careful, Spoilers ahead for Curse of Strahd
[sblock]
Hey everyone,

I´m running CoS for a couple of friends and they just entered the Amber Temple. After reading the specifics for the Amber Sarcophagi, a question came to my mind.

You can not accept dark gifts if you have been "manipulated or coerced". Does this cover the flaw you get from touching the staff of frost? (wanting power over everything else)

Just don´t want to screw my players over because I´m misinformed^^

PS: Is there any way to get rid of the flaw from the staff? Or any way to get rid of ANY flaw? (RAW)[/sblock]

 

[jaelis]

I would not say that flaws in general count as coercion or manipulation. How a player interprets and deals with a flaw is up to them.

 

[toucanbuzz]

Running CoS, though my players haven't reached the Amber Temple yet.

1. It's no coincidence that item is in that location. It's meant to introduce a unique dilemma when the Dark Powers get involved.

2. It's a permanent flaw. While you could treat it like a curable curse, Barovia isn't supposed to be a forgiving land. When prepping, I saw some DMs allow a Wisdom save to resist the flaw. I don't agree with that because it's not a Charm or Compulsion. In some ways, it's like an old school Helm of Opposite Alignment, which was a powerful cursed item fixable only by things like Wish. The player won't seek to "fix" it because in his mind, there's nothing wrong.

3. Because a flaw isn't a Charm, there's no coercion or manipulation, which involve making the unwilling do something they don't want to do. This doesn't mean other players can't notice a shift in personality, and it doesn't make the player lose common sense. The flawed character can't become a god-amongst-men if he's dead. So he'll get that power, but there's no reason to tell him to be foolish about it. Unless he's already playing a foolish character...

4. There's a good chance your players get screwed over. This is a very unforgiving but awesome location.

 

[Pauper]

Flaws are explained in the PH/Player's Basic Rules (BR, p.35); a flaw gained from a magical item or curse is, mechanically, no different from the flaw the player assigned the character at character creation. Characters aren't bound by their flaws, but playing in accordance with the flaw provides you as DM the chance to reward the player with Inspiration. ("Typically, DMs award it [inspiration] when you play out your personality traits, given in to the drawbacks presented by a flaw or bond, and otherwise portray your character in a compelling way." BR, p.35) And yes, you can have more than one flaw, modify flaws in play, or even get rid of flaws with the DM's approval (though getting rid of flaws doesn't necessarily help your character, as it also rids the character of a simple way to earn Inspiration).

So, no, the flaw is not 'coercion' which would invalidate the Dark Gift (since the player can choose to ignore it), but at the same time, the character need not surrender to the flaw and accept the Dark Gift -- characters can, occasionally, rise above their flaws and 'do the right thing' when required. However, if the player decides that the character would surrender to the flaw, that would be worth an award of Inspiration, if you as DM decide to award it.

You're only 'screwing' your player if you as DM decide that the character must accept a Dark Gift, regardless of the player's wishes -- this, I believe, is the point behind the 'coercion or manipulation' clause in the Dark Gift text, that a Dark Gift can only be freely accepted as the character's (and player's) choice, not imposed by the universe (or DM).

--
Pauper

 

[Satyrn]

I would not say that flaws in general count as coercion or manipulation. How a player interprets and deals with a flaw is up to them.

I agree . . . unless the DM is treating the flaw more like a compulsion, and actually directing the player on how or when to act on it.

But yeah, exactly what you say if it's left up to the player to act on the flaw, I'd totally not consider it coercion or manipulation.

 

[Harzel]

Another vote for not considering a flaw to be manipulation or coercion.