Daemons, Yugoloths, and other NE things: Tell me about them in your games

[Shemeska]

Daemons/Yugoloths/'loths/ and other varieties of NE fiends have been part of D&D since darn near the beginning, and they've had a lot of different perspectives and levels of exposure over the years.

With all apologies for pimping something of mine, I recently hadBook of the Damned 3: Horsemen of the Apocalypse come out with Paizo, and it's a topic that I've had, well, a reputation for being "enthusiastic" about since I first popped up online years back. This was a labor of love. A hellish, misery infused, end-of-days sort of love.

So I'm looking both for feedback on the topic if you've read the book or used them in your game (regardless of ruleset), and as a larger question for this thread (which I get to, two paragraphs in): How have you used 'loths, daemons, or other NE fiends in your own campaigns? What sources of inspiration have you used? Did you ever make your players cry? Etc.

Actually...ok, I'm coming here shamelessly begging for feedback, because this one was a labor of love that I've wanted to write for literally years.

And one last pimping. *glee*

 

[FreeXenon]

First I will say congrats to you! =)

Second, before I saw who wrote this post I was going to recommend that the best person to help the op out would be Shemeska, for what that's worth.

I do not play Pathfinder or anything 3.5 based anymore.. yea 4E, but since you wrote it I may be inclined to pick it up for any of your wonderful fluff.

 

[Voadam]

They pretty much originated in the D modules as the two new super tough fiends, daemons who were distinct from devils and demons. I can't remember if they were in the Fiend Folio (the original two were I think) but I know Daemons got the big expansion in the AD&D MMII with the ultra, hydro, oino, etc.

The art from the MMII was fantastic but I was mostly inspired by the text from the 2e AD&D outer planes monstrous compendium where Yugoloths were huge mercenary fiends in the blood war between the baatezu and tanari.

My long term viking warrior turned wizard PC's background was as a veteran on the loosing side of a mortal war against a fiend summoner who used Yugoloths and Ghereleths.

I never got into planescape until the pdfs came out years later so the early 2e conception of them in the OP-MC remains my biggest influence.

I unknowingly ran into some of the jackal head ones in disguise in a high level game at a planar library and made a deal with them I probably should not have in order to gain abyssal information.

I have not used them in my games as a DM, though I am interested in them and I want to get the Paizo book eventually.

Congratulations on the book.

 

[avin]

Heck, I've used Yugoloths even on my 4E campaigns.

I own The Great Beyond, but not this, yet.

In my games Loths are lead by Oinoloth... with baernoloths behind the courtains, so there's no much space for the Four Horsemen... I can say that your stoyhours have a lot of influence in my games.

 

[howandwhy99]

Nycadaemons and Mezzodaemons were introduced in D3: Vault of the Drow, so I use them from there. Plenty of others were added in MMII, but that book wasn't exactly well received. Still, it does hold many iconic creatures, so I incorporate them as potential elements of the game world.

 

[Shemeska]

First I will say congrats to you! =)

Second, before I saw who wrote this post I was going to recommend that the best person to help the op out would be Shemeska, for what that's worth.

I do not play Pathfinder or anything 3.5 based anymore.. yea 4E, but since you wrote it I may be inclined to pick it up for any of your wonderful fluff.

Thanks, and I'm quite amused by that.

Except for the latter part of the book with a bunch of spells/items/new daemons (and their associated stats) most of the book is primarily flavor so portable to other rulesets certainly with some tweaking.

The art from the MMII was fantastic but I was mostly inspired by the text from the 2e AD&D outer planes monstrous compendium where Yugoloths were huge mercenary fiends in the blood war between the baatezu and tanari.

I never got into planescape until the pdfs came out years later so the early 2e conception of them in the OP-MC remains my biggest influence.

I have not used them in my games as a DM, though I am interested in them and I want to get the Paizo book eventually.

Congratulations on the book.

Pretty much the opposite of me in that I found the 2e PS stuff first, and only much later managed to get my hands on the pre-PS 2e OP-MC and 1e material. All of it interesting stuff though, and its fun to see how they evolved over time, sometimes dramatically.

And also, thank you for the congrats

 

[Shemeska]

Heck, I've used Yugoloths even on my 4E campaigns.

I own The Great Beyond, but not this, yet.

In my games Loths are lead by Oinoloth... with baernoloths behind the courtains, so there's no much space for the Four Horsemen... I can say that your stoyhours have a lot of influence in my games.

*blush* Some subtle influence from the SH (and stuff yet to appear there) is there in BotD3. One of the Horsemen and one of the Harbingers are derived somewhat from characters there.

The PF Oinodaemon conceptually combines the Oinoloth and to some extent the same flavor as the baern did as progenitors. But it takes off into a very different power dynamic, like if for instance in classic AD&D if Mydianchlarus and Anthraxus had ruled supreme and took advice from a coterie of chained, brutalized baernaloths locked away in the basement for the past million years or so. But IP being IP, had to go a different route in PF so anything like the baern proper are kinda out of bounds, but you can play with broad concepts and honestly putting a really different twist on some of them and branching off into new territory is really fun.

 

[Hand of Evil]

Not read the book but will be checking it out.

The big point about my NE daemons and friends (any "N" group) are that they are Neutral, yep they will eat your soul and trick you in giving up your first born but they maintain the balance between lawful and chaos.

These are the lobbiest daemons in my games, they are behind the scenes making sure Lawful & Chaos don't screw up the balance of the planes. As lobbiest, they broker their powers and resourses. I look at their domains and think this is what the agenda is for them, now who do they work with to get it.

 

[Zelda Themelin]

Hi, I am owner of that book, and I like it. Made a very interesting read, though it was lacking some sfuff that I felt belonged there, but I don't right now remember what it was. More info on some thingies, I think.

Well, that said, it still will not found as much use in our games than demons and devils do. I don't like daemons. Or Yag-a-lot's
Ok I am not fan of second edition naming iterations, but that's another story.

And btw I like your writing style a lot, I am fan of many stories you have done.

Daemons are too entropistic as described and too self-hating nihilists at the same time. I don't think that angle works. I want my end of the universe thingies be less seven deadly sins. And less saw movies, and less hellraiser. I think daemons are some sort of read-haired bastard children of evil that have potential yet are kinda spawns in clockwork end-time-machine running on corpse of dead gods. Parasites and carrion birds eating on the flesh of still-living universe. Which is image I kinda like to dispel.

D&D view in esp. daemons, is kinda boring. And if their motivations are all doom and gloom and "I will feast on your soul", they are bad in games of corruption and that's what makes evil outsiders interesting to use. Well, as combat mobs I like few of them.

I like so called lovecraft mythology. Also besides new iterations of that I mostly like older horror. Black God's Kiss and other Jirel novels are my kinda stuff.

Also I've kinda of off from depressing evil. I don't want to introduce my players sorry fates instead I make them read comics like Neonomicon/Fall of Cthulhu/Tecnopriests, and swear that I never again run D&D as mix of D&D/Dark Conspiracy/Call of Cthulhu/Kult/with something by me.

When I read Golarion Great Beyond stuff I feel terrible tempted.

Well, but Horsemen of Apocalypse was good book, I recommend reading it. IMO even if I won't be using it so much, there is lot of insparing stuff. And writing style has good flow. Great Beyond is great book too, and I liked devil and demon books, though devil book was better IMO, but that's personal opinion.

 

[Quickleaf]

[MENTION=11697]Shemeska[/MENTION]
I loved your work on Great Unknown, and knowing how dear yugoloths are to you, when you say "labor of love" I know you mean it 125%. Even though I'm not a Pathfnder player currently, I'll look for a copy of your new book at my FLGS.

To answer your more general question, I treat yugoloths as self-reflective fiends, the ultimate pragmatic epistemologists. Since they don't believe in good (everyone has an ulterior motive), when a yugoloth asks "why am I here?", they can only see a wicked truth staring back at them. They test and probe mortals, particularly goody-two-shoes, to "justify" their beliefs (which in the yugoloth sense invariably means expose selfish angle).

Thus most yugoloths I've run in my Planescape campaigns have been wicked scientists, sages, and lawyers. One of my favorite was a "resurrection advocate" who helped appeal refused raise dead spells, though his contract required he represent the spellcaster and resurrectee in all further raise dead scenarios.

I guess what makes the yugoloths truly frightening IMC is that unlike baatezu and tanar'ri, they don't have the answers, are willing to anything to find them, yet are unable to perceive the existence/possibility of good.