d20 StarWars - Multishot, why?

[0-hr]

Like D&D, you can use Rapid Shot in StarWars to get an extra attack at -2 -2. But the game then goes on to add the Multishot feat which (combined) gives you yet another attack at -4 -4 -4.

Is that really necessary? It seems rather broken to me, especially when combined with the easy-to-aquire personalized blaster that lessens the penalties down to -2 -2 -2.

TWF is to melee as Rapid Shot is to ranged combat. There is no melee equivalent to the third attack though. Is this just in there to blance out the light-saber guys?

Since I've greately toned down the Jedi in my campaign, I'm condiering removing the Multishot feat and/or having Rapid Shot not stack with multifire. But first, I'd like to hear the opinions and experiences of others who have spent a lot of time in the d20 StarWars universe.

 

[kenobi65]

I think it is in there, in part, to make a blaster-user competitive with a higher-level Jedi in combat.

The Jedi won't get as many attacks, but they'll do more damage. A personal blaster tops out at 3d8 and change, whereas a mid-to-high-level Jedi is doing 5d8 or more.

 

[genshou]

Think again–Multishot does not add an additional attack. It simply reduces the penalty for a weapon on multifire or autofire setting. Multifire and autofire exist for the same reason Double Tap and autofire exist in d20 Modern. For firing a bow, standard iterative attack rules and Rapid Shot are fine. For blasters, you need to represent the higher rate of fire that can be used by anyone, though you have to have a high attack bonus and the Multishot feat in order to hit anything.

 

[0-hr]

I'm not seeing why Rapid Shot and Multifire stack. You just have a super fast trigger finger?

I see Multifire as giving everyone a poor-man's version of Rapid Shot. So I think the feat should just reduce the penalties, not give you an entire new attack. If you want to shoot like a machine gun, then get something with autofire and have at it.

 

[kenobi65]

I'm not seeing why Rapid Shot and Multifire stack. You just have a super fast trigger finger?

Why not? It's a feat...they're meant to let you do extraordinary things.

A round is 6 seconds long. And, even in the real world, automatic weapons can crank out a whole lot more than 7 shots in 6 seconds (7 being the maximum you'd get in a round, with 4 for high BAB, 2 more for a rifle on Autofire, and 1 more for Rapid Shot).

I see Multifire as giving everyone a poor-man's version of Rapid Shot. So I think the feat should just reduce the penalties, not give you an entire new attack. If you want to shoot like a machine gun, then get something with autofire and have at it.

All that the Multishot feat does is reduce the penalties for using the Multifire or Autofire switch on a gun. And, yeah, it's a poor-man's Rapid Shot...but, by the RAW, Rapid Shot and Multifire / Autofire do stack. I played a gunbunny in Living Force, and used both to some effect....but, IME, it was still the Jedi who were opening large economy-sized cans of whupa** in combat. As I stated earlier, I think allowing them to stack makes the Soldier a viable combat option, compared to a Jedi.

Also, a big part of your argument (both here and in your thread on the WotC board) argue that the blaster personalizations are "easy to come by". That depends a lot on the campaign, and that's another thing you, as GM, can do to control the situation, if you think it's out of hand. Don't like what that does? Don't let that modification be made.

In the end, if you dislike it that much...just house-rule the dang thing.

 

[0-hr]

In the end, if you dislike it that much...just house-rule the dang thing.

I'm sure that realize what an empty statement that is. Yes for this, or any, rule or situation in this, or any, game you can always house-rule this, or anything, that you don't like.

Saying this adds nothing to the conversation while subtracting much from your credibility as an advice-giver.

Most of stuff said before this tripe was informative and appreciated - don't dilute your contribution with empty cliches.

 

[kenobi65]

I'm sure that realize what an empty statement that is. Yes for this, or any, rule or situation in this, or any, game you can always house-rule this, or anything, that you don't like.

I'll grant you that. But, from reading this thread here, and the parallel thread you started on the WotC boards, it didn't seem, to me, like you really were giving much credence to any of the thoughts that people were giving you on the subject. Esp. in the WotC thread, your opinion seemed to come down to, "I think that it's an absolute no-brainer of a feat-chain, and therefore, it must be broken." Given that it sounded, to me, like you weren't going to be convinced, I made a flip remark. Sorry.

 

[genshou]

Weapons with a multifire setting have the mechanical capability to be fired at a higher rate of fire. The Rapid Shot feat represents the remarkable talent to fire off one more useful shot every six seconds than someone without the feat using the same weapon. When you use Rapid Shot with a multifire weapon, that talent means you are capable of firing an extra shot above and beyond what others without the feat can. Others could try to fire off an extra shot, too, but it would probably just make that extra shot and some of the others fired that round miss even more horribly, since they don't have the talent required to fire off shots quicker like you do.

 

[Zimbel16]

Like D&D, you can use Rapid Shot in StarWars to get an extra attack at -2 -2. But the game then goes on to add the Multishot feat which (combined) gives you yet another attack at -4 -4 -4.

Is that really necessary? It seems rather broken to me, especially when combined with the easy-to-aquire personalized blaster that lessens the penalties down to -2 -2 -2.

If broken in your mind means that anyone with an appropriate weapon who is not focusing on the force will be highly likely to take both these feats, and should use them nearly all the time, then the answer is "yes". On the other hand, a lot of Force abilities are pretty strong, too; were it not possible to gain both, one could argue that this is an attempt at counterbalance (which it probably is, just a poor one).

TWF is to melee as Rapid Shot is to ranged combat. There is no melee equivalent to the third attack though. Is this just in there to blance out the light-saber guys?

Probably. I suspect that they were trying to make non-force users competative to force users.

Since I've greately toned down the Jedi in my campaign, I'm condiering removing the Multishot feat and/or having Rapid Shot not stack with multifire. But first, I'd like to hear the opinions and experiences of others who have spent a lot of time in the d20 StarWars universe.

In that case I probably would. Personally, I removed Rapid Shot, and kept Multishot (after increasing the power of the weaker classes). Note that I've never played or run Star Wars at high levels.

 

[genshou]

In that case I probably would. Personally, I removed Rapid Shot, and kept Multishot (after increasing the power of the weaker classes). Note that I've never played or run Star Wars at high levels.

But that doesn't make any sense either. Now people with slugthrowers, bows, and single shot blasters can't develop a special talent at being able to fire an extra shot without having all their attacks just miss horribly due to firing at a faster rate than their aim can handle.