D&D Blog : Dice Tricks

[pauljathome]

I don't think anybody has pointed out the new blog on dice tricks

//http://community.wizards.com/dndnext/blog/2012/02/17/dice_tricks

As is so often the case when game designers discuss math they get it wrong.

2D20 taking the best is NOT at all the same as getting a +5 bonus. The biggest difference in practice is probably in the chance of criticals but the odds of other results also significantly change.

And he didn't mention the most important point when adding extra dice or dice tricks. When does it apply? Assuming that it is some kind of limited effect (eg, as is done in some 4th edition racial benefits) then it makes a very, very significant difference to the effect on the game is you can decide after rolling the dice.

That said, I like dice tricks in moderation. They can give a lot more control to the player. But they have to be limited in when they can apply

 

[Mercule]

Action points are about the only dice trick I want to see. It's a one-trick pony (pun semi-intended) and feels firmly like an optional add-on that is pretty niche and infrequent. I'd hate to see tricks worked deeper into D&D. I think that's part of where my objection to opposed spell rolls comes from, though I hadn't made the connection before reading the article.

Outside of D&D, I don't have a problem with dice tricks. Savage Worlds is all dice tricks. Shadowrun and WoD are entirely pool driven. I love all of the above. But, I wouldn't want to see d20-style attack rolls mixed into those systems, either. Pick a mechanical style and run with it. Leave the bastardization to swords.

 

[Ahnehnois]

I think that rerolling or rolling twice is a fun mechanic and has its uses, but that static modifiers should remain the primary currency of D&D.

I like UA action points that add a d6 (or the best of a couple of d6's) as well.

One thing I think would be interesting is to give rerolls to high-level martial characters. It makes them special (and if you're a 20th level fighter, you really deserve to have a lower than 5% chance of rolling a 1).

 

[The Shadow]

I like rerolling much better than bonus dice. Bonus dice are the same as bonuses, only messier and more gimmicky.

Best of two dice amounts to a bonus without bursting the bounds of the die.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I like them in small doses. Avenger is great in 4e and I would love to see it rolled into more powers features and ability.

I would love to see all 4 bonuses:
This gives +1/2/3 to hit and damage
This gives +1d4/1d6/1d8 to hit or skills
This lets you roll 2/3 d20 and take the best
This let's you if you dislike a result reroll but have to take the 2nd

 

[Tehnai]

I think Star Wars Saga Edition made good use of them. Mostly of the "2d20, keep best" one, as a representation of a special talent, a natural characteristic that was beyond mere skill. An half-orc, for example, would roll 2d20, keep best, for Intimidation related rolls.

I often do give my players extra dice to roll when attempting something really awesome that will make the session memorable. That being said, I'm a die-hard fan of the D30 for that. In all of my d20-esque games, there's always a d30 on the table, waiting patiently to be summoned through the "every player may replace one roll of any sort by a d30, once per session".

Of course, it needs to be limited. Else it loses its magic.

 

[Sunseeker]

Rolling differently, different numbers, different sizes, ect... of dice is only of many ways used to differentiate powers/abilities, classes, and weapons. If everyone rolled a d20 to hit and then Xd6, i think the game would feel horribly reptitive. Even in Deadlands which has no static modifiers and isntead only increases or decreases the number and type of die rolled still allows for players to customize how they roll.

Do I roll 3d12's to hit and then 6d6? Or do I roll 5d8's to hit and then 4d10's?

In D&D, while most people roll 20's to hit, there are still variants. I recall somehow in 4e they rolled 2d10's and added the result. Some people roll 2 20's, some people deal damage with 2d6, 1d10, 1d12 and so on. All of these indicate interesting and often fun differences between classes, powers and even playstyles.

This article really strikes me as Wizards just failing to understand the reason we roll different dice types and amounts. It isn't just a different way to achieve a static modifier. It's a way to keep everything from feeling the same.

 

[Savage Wombat]

I think rolling 2d20s instead of one is a great way of simulating a luck power of some sort. You can't rely on it, but sometimes it makes thing work better.

It is not a good way of replacing a static bonus. If I'm trying to roll a 24 with my measly +2 bonus, I would much rather have a +5 to the roll instead of two chances. Maybe in the cases of "20 always hits" it works out somewhat, but I suspect in most cases it doesn't.

 

[Someone]

I see a poll missing:

"Should dice tricks be included, someone among the writing team should have a basic understanding of statistics and probability"

* Strongly disagree
* Disagree
* I like potatoes.

 

[MerricB]

I'm trying to work out where Monte got 4.5 from; my calculations indicate rolling 2d20 increases the average result by 3.325...

Hmm.