D&D 3E/3.5 D&D 3.5 - Rogue SA optimizing.

[IzorkX]

Hey,

As it stands I'm playing a Rogue (Lv. 5 currently) in a undead heavy campaign (Undeads all over the place, one big city is the last standing, DM says 50% undeads in the world, probaly more.)

We get the current "bonuses" against undeads:

Turn Undead at around Lv. 6 for all
SA do work against undeads.


What my original idea was for a build was a Rogue Lv.6 and at 7 begin dipping into Skullclan Hunter (For all the immunities, and Dispruptive Strike or what the name is that as far as I can read does so I can do SA on every attack.. Anyone can clarify if that is what it does?? Basicly not needing to flank or whatever).


But I thought about trying to go a build PURELY on optimising SA.


my feats are weapon finesse and martial study (to get martial stance for assassins stance + 2d6 to SA at Lv. 10)


That's an extra 2d6.

What other ways are there to improving SA or just doing loads moar DMG ?


Hope anyone got some nice builds. I'm open minded. mind that what im asking is what to dip in after 7 since I must be Lv 6 (also asking if theres any feats neccesary at Lv. 6 for whatever build you suggest) so basicly build after Lv. 6 for rogue going full SA mode


Thank you.

(Sorry if my grammar is terrible, but english is not my native language.)

 

[IzorkX]

By the way I do not use TWF.

 

[radja]

here's a list of sneak attack feats:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66915

Sacred Strike looks especially good. SA's d6s becomes d8s and good-aligned on evil opponents.

since you can sneak attack undead, you may want to pick up some acid flasks, alchemist fire and holy water. you can sneak attack with those thrown items too. if you get use magic device, a wand of acid splash is a nice investment.. or a wand of disrupt undead (both lvl 0 spells..)

 

[IzorkX]

Yeah, sacred strike looks useful.

Also Deadly Precision +2d6 (DM just told me it would cost me 7,5k which is fine)

When I level im thinking about switching weapon finesse with TWF and go full swashbuckler and get Daring Outlaw feat

 

[IzorkX]

When Rogue 6/14 Swashbuckler I can get to 84d8 + 6d6 against undeads.

That is using two-weapon-fighting, improved, greater, sacred strike, martial study, martial stance, Daring Outlaw (thats 7 feats, got 1 left)

and deadly precision enchanted on my weapon (these d8s is assuming only one weapon is enchanted)


the d6s is from my longswords (DM said ok to use with weapon finesse, otherwise id do 1d4s which well. .meh)


Think this is ok?

 

[parinho7]

Craven
Penetrating Strike

 

[emoplato]

When Rogue 6/14 Swashbuckler I can get to 84d8 + 6d6 against undeads.

That is using two-weapon-fighting, improved, greater, sacred strike, martial study, martial stance, Daring Outlaw (thats 7 feats, got 1 left)

and deadly precision enchanted on my weapon (these d8s is assuming only one weapon is enchanted)


the d6s is from my longswords (DM said ok to use with weapon finesse, otherwise id do 1d4s which well. .meh)


Think this is ok?

Okay the d6's means you are small correct(it also should be 7d6)? You can actually get Assassin's stance as a hand-slot item saving yourself two feats. Martial study is decent but a bit underwhelming as it only can be used once per encounter and only a few good options that scale don't require other maneuvers. Underfoot Combat and Confound the Big Folk offers some amazing tactics for stealth and control. You can move into someone who is two categories size's larger than and they are automatically flat-footed. You also can use them as a shield incurring a 50% chance to hit them and you have cover. Finally, get the mosquito bite skill trick and hitch a ride without them knowing. I know this isn't strict sneak attack optimization but it allows you to get more out of it.
Assassin's stance is quite nice, however if you are chaotic there is actually a better option. Aura of Chaos which you can get as a pendant allows you to reroll any maximum result die you rolled and add it to the total during damage. It repeats until you don't get a maximum result.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

Iaijutsu Focus skill from Oriental Adventures. Learn to use it wisely.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Craven
Penetrating Strike

Definitely get Craven. But OP's DM already lets him SA undead and undead are half the enemies (and unless the DM's an ass, that means by sheer odds, most of the other stuff they fight can already be sneak attacked). So, if there is any other decent trap sense trade out there at all, get that over Penetrating Strike, IMO. Spell Sense might be a good idea.

For other feats, you absolutely must get staggering strike as soon as you can. Any foe you hit with a melee sneak attack must save vs. a DC based on damage dealt (ie, stupidly high) or be staggered for 1 round. You get to full attack, but they do not!

I would not have wasted a feat on Martial Study. You should just dip Swordsage. It is so very much worth it. For two levels of dip, you get: 1) weapon focus with spiked chain, daggers, and unarmed strike (and some other junk) by picking Shadow Hand for the weapons group; 2) maneuvers to help you either full attack or sneak attack, namely: sudden leap (move up to melee as a swift action), distracting ember (instant flanking buddy), and cloak of deception (greater invisibility till end of turn); 3) Assassin's Stance and one other stance of your choice -- Island of Blades and Chld of Shadow are both excellent; 4) Wisdom to AC...possibly not useful to you; 5) The ability to re-use your maneuvers in the same encounter (base recovery ability sucks, but Adaptive Style feat fixes it well).
Pretty worth it to me. You lose 2 rogue levels of progression, and thus 1d6 SA, but the stance is giving you back 2d6 anyway.

Other cool feats:
Backstab - From dragon magazine / crystalkeep. Anytime you're flanking and the foe doesn't attack you, he provokes an AoO for you. ...An AoO from a position of flanking...
Darkstalker - From Lords of Madness. Makes hide and move silently actually practical to use.
Shadow Blade - Tome of Battle. If you're using a Shadow Hand weapon and in a shadow hand stance anyway...why not add dex to damage on top of strength?

Also consider dipping Hit and Run Fighter (Fighter alternate class from Drow of the Underdark) for 1-2 levels. Gains bonus feats (as a normal fighter), +2 intiative, and the ability to add Dex to damage against flatfooted foes within 30 ft.

EDIT: Sample build

Rogue 1 / HaR Fighter 2 / Rogue +3 / Swordsage 2 (and then continue in rogue)

At ECL 8, has sneak attack of +4d6 in assasin's stance, next level, rogue 5, gains another +1d6 and adds dex to damage (shadow blade). In addition, he adds dex to damage against FF foes. He has a nice initiative mod of d20 +3 +dex mod.

 

[irdeggman]

By the way I do not use TWF.

You should.

TWF was pretty much optimized for SA since all attacks made meeting the conditions gain the SA bonus - so both primary and off-hand get it.

Combine with weapon finesse (for a couple of light weapons) - it gets powerful real quick with a high Dex.