Critical Failure and Success house rules

[tassadar7945]

So I thought of some ideas for some house rules for criticals,

Critical Failures: Can only happen on rolls with disadvantage. If the player rolls two garunteed misses, usually a 1 on the D20, they suffer a critical mishap. DM's choice on how to resolve.

Critical Success: Use roll to confirm from 3.5 rules.

Super Critical: Can only happen on an advantage roll. If the player rolls 2 criticals normally 20s. DM can choose to resolve how they wish.

I also had a couple ideas for curses/bonuses that affected critical rates on magic items:

Unlucky/Dulled: Automatic Failures can happen on a 1 or 2.

Lucky/Keen: Critical Succes on 19-20.

Let me know what you guys think

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[Imaculata]

Why only on a disadvantage? As I understand it, the advantage/disadvantage system was meant to replace all the bonuses and penalties from third edition into something that didn't require so much math. But I see no relation there with critical successes or failures. So if you are going to reintroduce this mechanic, why not just have it always apply, just like in third edition? And why on two misses? Why not just on any time a player rolls a 1?

It seems to me that you are over complicating a system that was designed to not be complicated.

Likewise, it seems a super critical is redundant if you already have normal criticals. The chance of it happening is so slim, that by the time it ever occurs, your players most likely have forgotten the rule, because it almost never comes up. In which case, that's not a very good rule.

As for your other ideas:

Unlucky/Dulled: Automatic Failures can happen on a 1 or 2.

Lucky/Keen: Critical Succes on 19-20.

I think this would work fine. One of the things I did for my 3.5 pirate campaign, is have certain high risk weapons, that explode on a critical fail, if the user rolls a 1 or a 2 on the misfire table as well. For example, I have holdout pistols in my campaign, which historically were notorious for being dangerous to the user. So I have a rule that these weapons can explode on the wielder on a 1 or a 2. But since I added a special misfire table for this, such an event is always the result of two rolls: a 1, and then a 1 or a 2. So that's also a rare event, which has so far only happened twice in my campaign. But the difference here is that the misfire table is used for any misfire event. So while a firearm exploding on its user may be a rare event, the misfire table itself is used all the time.

I think what I'm trying to say, is that if you're going to introduce a new house rule, you might want to make sure that it is often used.... or at all. Otherwise you're just needlessly tacking extra rules on a system that excels in simplicity.

 

[Morrus]

I think those probabilities are so unlikely to happen that it's probably not worth the effort. If a quarter of rolls have advantage or disadvantage, we're looking at 1/1600 rolls being affected here. If something is that unusual, maybe the effect should be spectacular?


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[tassadar7945]

That's why i leave it up to the DM.

Lets say the party is interrogating someone for information. You are using intimidate, with disadvantage because they don't speak any languages you speak. You roll 1 and 1, so the DM can decide what happens. Maybe your interrogation techniques go too far and you accidentally kill this person that has the vital information you need.

I may edit these to happen whenever you have (dis)advantage so any time you'd be rolling 2 dice the Critical Failure or Critical Success can happen. Yes i know they don't happen nearly as much, but the things that happen with current critical rules AW, there is a 5% to do double damage. For normal criticals in my system works with the 3.5 rules of Threat/confirm. Instead of 5% chance for double damage, you have a 5% to threaten and then all you'd have to do is roll to see if your next roll would hit. The super critical is for those awesome times someone rolls two 20s with advantage.

 

[Oofta]

The problem I have with critical misses is that it harms high level fighters more than other classes. The more attacks you have the more likely you are to roll a 1.

It doesn't make any sense to me that a 20th level fighter is fumbling left and right while the first level rogue almost never fumbles.

So there's a couple of ways of dealing with it. I've played around with saving throw based on level and class: if you roll a 1 you need to make a critical save. DC is 20 minus you level (or double your level if you're a warrior class), fail the save and you fumble.

I found it was just more hassle than it was worth. As far as crits, there are lots of options for "exploding criticals". Easiest that if you roll a critical, roll again. If you crit again, roll again until you don't crit.

 

[robus]

So I thought of some ideas for some house rules for criticals,

Critical Failures: Can only happen on rolls with disadvantage. If the player rolls two garunteed misses, usually a 1 on the D20, they suffer a critical mishap. DM's choice on how to resolve.

Critical Success: Use roll to confirm from 3.5 rules.

Super Critical: Can only happen on an advantage roll. If the player rolls 2 criticals normally 20s. DM can choose to resolve how they wish.

I also had a couple ideas for curses/bonuses that affected critical rates on magic items:

Unlucky/Dulled: Automatic Failures can happen on a 1 or 2.

Lucky/Keen: Critical Succes on 19-20.

Let me know what you guys think

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I just borrow from FFG's Star Wars rules: Nat 20 - triumph. Nat 1 - Despair.

 

[Imaculata]

That's why i leave it up to the DM.

Lets say the party is interrogating someone for information. You are using intimidate, with disadvantage because they don't speak any languages you speak. You roll 1 and 1, so the DM can decide what happens. Maybe your interrogation techniques go too far and you accidentally kill this person that has the vital information you need.

I see two problems here. If you're trying to intimidate someone, and you roll a 1, then you've probably already failed anyway. So why have an extra roll to see if you roll a 1 again?

Further more, I don't think it is the DM's job to decide what my character does. I would be pretty pissed if the DM decided on my behalf that my character kills someone while trying to intimidate him. Surely this should be related to 'how' I am trying to intimidate, and not what I happen to roll?

I may edit these to happen whenever you have (dis)advantage so any time you'd be rolling 2 dice the Critical Failure or Critical Success can happen. Yes i know they don't happen nearly as much,

What we're saying is that these double failures happen so little, that you might as well not have rules for them at all. I've been running my campaign for over 2 years now, and we've only had a double 1 twice! And both times it happened to an enemy, not a player.

but the things that happen with current critical rules AW, there is a 5% to do double damage. For normal criticals in my system works with the 3.5 rules of Threat/confirm. Instead of 5% chance for double damage, you have a 5% to threaten and then all you'd have to do is roll to see if your next roll would hit. The super critical is for those awesome times someone rolls two 20s with advantage.

I think you mean: "for those awesome times that happen only once in a blue moon".

Here's a different idea. Rather than having a double critical system, just use the regular critical system, and have the DM or player narrate what kind of awesome thing happens. Depending on the coolness of the description, the DM can always choose to increase the damage that it does. This allows these awesome moments to happen far more frequently, and makes them far less random. Rather than these moments coming completely out of the blue, they are now tied directly to what happens during the battle.

Here an example from my campaign. For the record, we're running 3.5, and not 5th edition. But I think it is a good example.

Che the priest is trying to quietly take out a cannibal in a watchtower, at night. But he fails his stealth check.

The cannibal leaps towards Che while yelling loudly. Both roll for initiative, and Che goes first. But uh oh, he rolls a fumble on his attack! I tell Che the following:

"As you lunge at the cannibal, he quickly dashes aside, and your blade strikes the wood of the watchtower. With a swift motion the cannibal tries to grab your arm and knock the weapon from your hand."

The cannibal rolls for his grapple, and Che must roll an opposing grapple check. The cannibal wins. I roll a scatter die for Che's weapon, to decide if it drops off the tower or not. It does. The cannibal also does some unarmed damage.

"The cannibal knocks your blade from your hand, and it drops somewhere into the bushes below the tower. With a firm grip he locks both arms around you, and tries to push you over the edge of the tower. You can see the jungle far below you, and you hear the wooden railing creaking as he tries to push you over it. You are starting to see black spots in your vision due to his choke hold on you."

Next round. Che can attempt to beat the grapple with an opposing grapple check. He rolls a critical! Normally crits do not apply in this situation. You either succeed, or you don't. But I rule that Che overtakes his opponent, and is able to turn the tables on him. Because sometimes it is fun to take the critical success into account, even for skill checks or grapples.

"You see that the cannibal is trying to reach for a knife, but for an instant he must ease his grip on you. You manage to swing him around, and throw him into the railing. He takes damage and loses his grip on the knife. It also drops to ground level. The two of you effectively switch places. Now it is him looking down on the jungle below. What do you want to do?"

Che: "I want to push him over the edge!"

Che and the cannibal make opposing strength checks. Che succeeds, and is able to throw the cannibal off the tower. His opponent dies instantly.

So this is an example of how you can just use the context of the situation with a natural 20 or a fumble. You may have noticed that I did not have the cannibal make a disarm check, because I ruled that Che's fumble on his attack enabled the cannibal to grab Che's arm and basically get a free disarm, provided that his grapple succeeded. I also ruled that Che's critical resulted in a beneficial situation where he could now push his opponent off the tower, if he wants. I also decided to ignore falling damage rules for the cannibal, in favor of coolness factor. I would not have done the same for a PC.

You don't need to roll double 20's to have these awesome moments. Nor do you need double 1's to narrate an abysmal failure. In my experience, it is better to leave that entirely up to the situation, and the story that unfolds. If it makes sense in the story, and if it makes the session more exciting, then its all good. The rules are in service of the story after all.