Crit and Mighty Composite Longbows (Yes! It involves a Ranger!)

[Lela]

Does the (+4) Str mod get included when a crit is rolled. The reason I ask is because one of my players rolled out 42 pts of damage on a crit last time we played. Considering that he's 2nd level, that's a little high.

He dropped the Gnoll Shaman he was facing down to -32, shreding him.

He does have Gnolls as his favored enemy, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, an 18 str (only matters for the bow), Weapon Focus (Composite Longbow), and the Mighty Composite Longbow itself (+4).

Which of these, if any, would not be inluded in rolling up a crit? Any page references would be helpful to help me avoid an argument.

Thanks in advance,

 

[AGGEMAM]

He does have Gnolls as his favored enemy, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, an 18 str (only matters for the bow), Weapon Focus (Composite Longbow), and the Mighty Composite Longbow itself (+4).

Which of these, if any, would not be inluded in rolling up a crit? Any page references would be helpful to help me avoid an argument.

All !!!

Check PHB, page 277, a crit functions just as if the creature was hit twice (or more), except that bonus damage is only added once.

 

[Lela]

Re: Re: Crit and Mighty Composite Longbows (Yes! It involves a Ranger!)

All !!!

Check PHB, page 277, a crit functions just as if the creature was hit twice (or more), except that bonus damage is only added once.

Nice! Looks like I've stumbled onto a power play here. Good thing it's possible to use it against the PCs too. Add in Keen Arrows (from the spell) and Improved Crit, and we have a winner.

Of course, in the meantime, he can continue using it against me. Nice planning on his part, I must say. Very nice.

Thanks, AGGEMAM

 

[Negative Zero]

... Considering that he's 2nd level, that's a little high. ...

why does a 2nd lvl character have a +4 mighty comp. bow though? i don't know the item cost/char lvl rules, but it seems a bit extreme

~NegZ

 

[Magus_Jerel]

Aggemam -

Careful here. "Bonus damage" is damage like that from sneak attack or flaming weapons (which IIRC have their own crit rules anyway).

When rolling to "confirm" a critical, you use all of the modifiers of the previous attack. The weapon focus factors in on the critical roll

Critical hit damage is usually double normal damage, which means rolling damage twice, just as if the attacker had hit the defender two times. (Any bonus damage dice, such as that from a rogues sneak attack, are not rolled multiple times, but added to the total at the end of the calculation)

"normal damage" in this case is 1d8+5

1d8 from the bow +4 due to str mod(legal because of mighty bow), +1 due to PBS, and +1 due to favored enemy.

This is presuming the ranger was within 30 feet when he scored the critical so that he gets the favored enemy bonus to damage. As the comp longbow has a x3 crit...

the crit damage is
(1d8 +6)x3

or
3d8 +18

If your player just rolled a single d8, added the +5, and tripled it - he did it wrong. You actually HAVE to roll the damage three times. If you don't - you don't get the right damage curve.

42 points is the absolute maximum possible damage given this scenario. The actual damage curve is 18-42 points. Even at the other extreme of the crit damage, this shaman is at -8 hp... and would be at -9 before the ranger could get an action to check the gnoll's vital signs. "Shred" is the right word.

If your player managed to get max damage on a crit using a greataxe (2 handed weapon) against the same foe at 1st level; the maximum damage is a whopping 54 points - enough to call for a death from massive damage check.

It is not impossible for low level characters to "dish out" this much damage on sucessful critical hits. That is part of the reason why lower-level combat is so dangerous.

Keen Scimitars in the hands of a charater with the improved critical feat are also VERY deadly - you can expect a crit rate of 45% - but there are other combinations.

Edit - Thx Thanee - post corrected for the math error.

Aggemam - when I read your post, I thought you were refering to the "bonus damage" from the strength score, PBS and the ranger's ability - and indicating that this was not multiplied.

 

[AGGEMAM]

Hmmm ... Magus_Jerel,

the quote you gave is exactly what I pointed to in the PHB.

Sure the 42 hp damage is near the maximum, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen.

And I did say, it functions just like the creature was hit twice (or more), which coincidently means that you ROLL damage twice (or more).

Btw, nice that someone actually knows how to spell my name.

 

[Thanee]

Actually the critical damage is 3d8+18 (4 from str with mighty bow, 1 from favored enemy and 1 from point blank shot).

The maximum of 42 is correct, tho.

Yes, critical damage with 20/x3 crit weapons can be excessive, but they happen only half the time compared to the 19-20/x2 weapons, altho, these times are more spectacular usually!

A barbarian with greataxe can easily score over 50 damage with a single critical hit!

Bye
Thanee

 

[bensei]

Lela wrote:
... one of my players rolled out 42 pts of damage on a crit last time we played. Considering that he's 2nd level, that's a little high.

How much does damage from one ranged attack increase with Ranger level, anyway? Unless it comes to magic weapons or other fancy stuff, damage does not increase (much) with level (only against the favored enemies).

He does have Gnolls as his favored enemy, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Weapon Focus (Composite Longbow), ...

So you also play the variant, that a Ranger may take archer feats instead of ambidexterity and two weapon fighting as virtual feats? How exactly are your rules? (Okay, it's a house rule issue, but the thread is here...)

 

[Magus_Jerel]

I don't know - but the combo is legal at second level if you are playing any race and multi-classing; taking a level of fighter.

PBS and precice shot off of the fighter slots and the weapon focus feat as the 1st level character.

Perfectly legal.

 

[kreynolds]

Btw, nice that someone actually knows how to spell my name.

Hehe...I know that was at least a partial stab at me.