Crafting with hirelings using aid other

[Moon-Lancer]

Ok, so my character wants to craft a dwarves masterwork weapon. This is around 608 gold craft wise. If I hire 69 hirelings (at 3sp a day per hireling), along with myself as the primary crafter who has a high enough craft skill while all the hirelings use the aid other skill, is this legit? My calculations show, that I would only have to pay 202 gold for the weapon, and 144.9 gold for the hirelings, and the weapon is done in a week.

Would you allow this? Is this a valid use of hirelings? What if a hireling fails on the aid other (dc 10) is it fair not to pay him/her?


my logic is that if they cant aid other, its like any other job you fail at performing. Why would you pay anyone who cant do their job?

The question really is i guess, is at what point do having more workers makes crafting the weapon counter productive? why should I pay unhelpful crafters, if they don’t aid me? Would you pay anybody for anything if they fail to meet a deadline, or don’t contribute? Granted this is a subjective question.

i can see using 69 people to make one weapon, though i have never made a weapon in real life, but a few people could keep the forge hot, a few others could hold the sword in place to pound the steel, others could run the sword to the forge to the anvil and back. Others would be like nurses with the tools (ingraver... check). Others would be inbetweners who carry varias iteams back and forth when needed. Others would fetch water. Others would work on crafting varius parts of the hilt like the leather wrap, the pummal, the guard, having runners to check the balance between the blade and pummal and the guard ect. Basicly the idea would be that the main crafter (the pc) would only need to stay at the anvil to compleat the weapon. Im thinking for a dwarven craft weapon, dwarven hirelings are in order, dont you?

Finally, doesn’t this in some way fix crafting? as many people feel its broken and un-workable, I think I found a way to do crafting, within a realistic time, while using the rules. go me.

 

[IcyCool]

I'm of the opinion that 69 people working a single forge for a single weapon is ludicrous, and if your GM lets you hire an entire clan of dwarves to help you craft a weapon that isn't going to be some sort of clan heirloom, he's doing you a disservice. But then, I don't think the crafting rules are all that great either.

As to whether or not you pay a crafter who failed an aid another check, yes, you would. If they didn't even attempt the check, then you'd send them packing without pay. But the others are just performing their job (which they will sometimes fail at). And with 69 people to keep track of as well as focusing your attention on crafting a weapon, you won't be paying much attention anyway.

 

[Crothian]

Too many cooks spoil the meal. I think maybe 5 people could help.

 

[pawsplay]

I'd say up to three helpers pre project, unless you have very excellent facilities, then 5.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

IcyCool, what do you mean by clan airloom? for the dwarves? or for my charicter? how would having 69 hirelings that unbreak (fix in my opinion) the craft rules be a disservice to me? i say thats service baby

 

[Ilium]

I agree with Crothian and pawsplay. 5 helpers max (+10 on your roll). Assume they all take 10 on their rolls and presumably have a +1 or better modifier, so they won't fail.

+10 on your roll really ought to be sufficient.

 

[Kerrick]

See, this is where that thing called "common sense" comes in. If your DM allows it, he's an idiot, straight up.

Would you allow this? Is this a valid use of hirelings? What if a hireling fails on the aid other (dc 10) is it fair not to pay him/her?

Would I allow this? Umm... no.

Is it a valid use of hirelings? If you mean "Can I use hirelings to help me make stuff?" Then yes, it is.

What if a hireling fails on the aid other (dc 10) is it fair not to pay him/her? What kind of question is that? How would you know whether the hireling failed a roll? That's metagaming. You hire the person to do a job, he does the job, you pay him.

If you want some decent crafting rules, check this out. It's a little more comlex than the existing system, but it takes into account exactly how many people you can have helping you on a given project. In the case of the hammer, it would be three hirelings.

 

[cmanos]

Can you fit 69 dwarves around the anvil to help you forge the weapon or are you going to be tripping over them trying to get stuff done. 3-5 maximum.

 

[IcyCool]

IcyCool, what do you mean by clan airloom? for the dwarves? or for my charicter? how would having 69 hirelings that unbreak (fix in my opinion) the craft rules be a disservice to me? i say thats service baby

Is your character even a dwarf?

I was using "disservice" from a suspension of disbelief standpoint. Sorta like if your gm let you build and operate a Ferrari in a traditional D&D setting would be a disservice to you. But hey, if your GM goes for it, you don't mind, and the other players are fine with it, then go nuts.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

Kerrick
"What kind of question is that? How would you know whether the hireling failed a roll? That's metagaming. You hire the person to do a job, he does the job, you pay him."

Is it metagameing to know or not weather someone does a good job or not? If someone helps you paint your house, do you know if they help or not? would you pay someone 10 bucks an hour for a sloppy job? what kind of question is that? If he cant help me on my check, then is he really doing his job? I hire him to help and he cant help, should he get paid?

I looked at the link you provided, and it seems slower then normal crafting It would take 1 year to craft a masterwork weapon

IcyCool
"Is your character even a dwarf?"

i dont see why i couldent ask a dwarf how its done. It seems that mosty its a cultural thing, so a normal human couldent do dwarvencraft, but it doesent say that thier bodies or minds are the key to the skill, thus it should be possible for a pc to find a dwarf the skill and ask to be a student. It seems like the first paragraph on dwarven craft is a perviso about whats typical, and everyone knows pc's are atipical.

cmanos
"Can you fit 69 dwarves around the anvil to help you forge the weapon or are you going to be tripping over them trying to get stuff done. 3-5 maximum."

i can fit 69 dwarves in a large cave fetching tools, fanning the fire, makeing the hilt ect.


i guess this is the wrong place to get alittle peach eh?

if anyone has problems with 69 dwarves, anyone know of good crafting rules that dont wast feats and makes craft a usefull skill? I found a usefull and ecnomic way to use craft although its not the most realistic, but i dont think it is as far out as everyone thinks.