CR ranges for Summon Monster I-IX?

[Pax]

Does anyone know the typical/appropriate range of CR's for each Summon Monster spell? I'm trying to use the "custom summon lists" rules option in Unearthed Arcana, and the CRs posted in the example lists seem woefully low ... I mean, are they serious? Only CR 10-12 for Summon Monster IX ... ?!? I'd've thought the cap would be twice the spell level of the Summon ... or maybe one less than that!

But so low, at the upper levels, as to provide nothing more than a laughable speed bump for your enemies? If even that ...?!

Oy.

 

[Liquidsabre]

I suggest perusing the PHB summon monster IX list. You'll find that the CRs for the list range from CR 9 (Dire Shark) to CR 12 (Leonal), so what UA has sounds right. Perhaps your expectations for the summoning spells are a tad high? For bigger nasties just cast Gate.

 

[Necrohazard]

Yes, I thought it was low also after looking at the summoning tables of dragon 302, but it tends to go along with Unearthed Arcana on this one, and the CR of some of the creatures they had at Summon Monster IX was as low as CR 11 but not a one above 13. I have not really played around with it in game so I dont know how good or bad they are in combat, but just a quick look and some of the creatures could easily be cohorts at least in the power range of a caster when he is able to cast a given SMSpell. Then again there are some other less reliable but powerful spells one can call upon at the high levels of play if not epic the gate spell for one. I know not the same but better then nothing. Or is it? hmmmmm.

 

[Thanee]

If CR was that high (i.e. equal to your class level), then a single summon spell would double your fighting power, basically.

That would be very wrong!

Bye
Thanee

 

[Pax]

For bigger nasties just cast Gate.

The character is an Alienist, and will be using the "rapid summoning" Conjuror Specialist Variant in UA ... so Gate would be a comparative waste of XP.

Oh, well; I scoured my books and came up with a decent spreadof creatures, abysmally-low CR's notwithstanding:

    Summon Monster I (CR 1/2)               |         Summon Monster VII (CR 8-9)
    ... Beholderkin, Eyeball (MoFR)         |         ... Deepspawn (MoFR)
    ... Jemlaine (MM2)                      |         ... Glimmerskin (MM2)
                                            |     
    Summon Monster II (CR 1)                |         Summon Monster VIII (CR 9-10)
    ... Kython Broodling (BoVD)             |         ... Helmed Horror (MoFR)
    ... Ether Scarab (MM2)                  |         ... Rogue Eidolon (MoFR)
                                            |     
    Summon Monster III (CR 2)               |         Summon Monster IX (CR 11-12)
    ... Phase Wasp (MM2)                    |         ... Bebilith (MM1)
    ... Grimalkin (MM2)                     |         ... Diamond Golem (MoFR)
                                            |         ... Young Adult Topaz Dragon (MM2)
    Summon Monster IV (CR 3-4)              |         ... Shadow Spider (MM2)
    ... Black Unicorn (MoFR)                |         ... Spellgaunt (MM2)
    ... Fihyr (MM2)                         |     
                                            |     
    Summon Monster V (CR 4-5)               |     
    ... Banelar (MoFR)                      |     
    ... Nyth (MoFR)                         |     
    ... Jovoc (MM2)                         |     
                                            |     
    Summon Monster VI (CR 6-7)              |     
    ... Dark Tree (MoFR)                    |     
    ... Nishruu (MoFR)                      |     
    ... Great Old Master Neogi (MM2)        |

 

[Bauglir]

If CR was that high (i.e. equal to your class level), then a single summon spell would double your fighting power, basically.

That would be very wrong!

Bye
Thanee

Agreed, but having it set at (roughly) half your level makes it appear to me not worth casting. The sort of monsters in those ranges have attack bonuses that can barely reach the ACs of the sorts of things you'll be fighting, abilities that they can save against with ease, and not enough hit points to last, and the margin only gets wider as the caster level climbs. It's extremely possible for these creatures to have no impact on the encounter whatsoever, and for a 1-round casting time that's just not good enough.

I would suggest that instead of working with half the level, we look say creatures with a CR of around caster level - 4. House rules I know and not something I'm really prepared to go into in depth.

 

[Thanee]

Yes, ~half level isn't too great either. -4 sounds feasible.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Gez]

From memory, it went that way, at least in 3.0:

1: 1/2 or less
2: 1
3: 2
4: 3-4
5: 5-6
6: 7-8
7: 9-10
8: 11-12
9: 13-14

Further, any creature able to deal non-HP damage (poison, ability drain, negative levels, whatever) has its summon level bumped one up.

 

[Thanee]

The level should be more based on ECL than on CR, tho, since that includes the nifty out of combat abilities.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Pax]

Well, part of myproblem, of course, is trying to use summon monster spells as primary tactic ... in a 25th level arena. ^_^ But that's what Enhanced Summons is for (get numbers as if you had cast a summon one level higher than you actually cast - IOW, 1d3of the same level, or 1d4+1 of one level lower).

An enhanced Empowered summon monster IX can get 1d3 x 1.5 (1, 3, or 4) top-level critters, or 1d4 x 1.5 (3, 4, 6, or 7) of the critters from the VIII list. And yes, he's got the 11th level slots for it. Whee!

Or, more fun: an enhanced Quickened Twin Summon Monster III and select from the "II" list; sure, the're hit-kills, but I'll get 2d4+2 of them, and that many pseudonatural kython broodlings will atleast take a round or two to chop through.

Or Twin, Empower Summon Monster V, and grab a bunch of Pseudonatural Jovocs. Go ahead, kill 'em - you'll simply hurt yourself in the meantime (that aura of theirs is NASTY). ^_^ 'specially ifI follow up with a quickened Summon VII, and grab me 1d3 Pseudonatural Glimmerskins to bond to the Jovocs .... HEH.

Or ... or ... or ... well, LOTs of stuff. ^_^'