D&D 5E Counterspell

[sithramir]

So. I have a question: How do you know what level of spell a caster is casting? With counterspell can i auto decide to choose the correct level to counter it? Or do I declare that and then roll a check if their spell is higher than the slot I used?

C o u n t e r s p e l l
3rd-level abjuration
Casting Time: 1 reaction, which you take when you see
a creature within 60 feet o f you casting a spell
Range: 60 feet
Components: S
Duration: Instantaneous
You attempt to interrupt a creature in the process o f
casting a spell. If the creature is casting a spell o f 3rd
level or lower, its spell fails and has no effect. If it is
casting a spell o f 4th level or higher, make an ability
check using your spellcasting ability. The DC equals 10
+ the spell’s level. On a success, the creature’s spell fails
and has no effect.
At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a
spell slot o f 4th level or higher, the interrupted spell has
no effect if its level is

 

[DaveDash]

I started letting my players roll arcana/religion checks to see if they could figure out what spell level it is. It does make it quite easy for them to completely shut down enemy casters at higher levels though so I'm having second thoughts about that rule. Nothing like your NPC caster's 9th level spell getting counterspelled.

 

[KarinsDad]

You do not get to know the level of the spell being cast. However, the DM knows that and will let you know if you have to make an ability check when you decide to counter the spell.

Note: I suspect that when a DM declares the targets and effects of (or asks for saves for) the spell, most DMs will let you counter the spell at that point. This will give many players some clue as to what type or how powerful of a spell is being cast, but it will not necessarily let them know level of the spell.

 

[Scorpio616]

For what it is worth, Mearls feels the counterer knows the level

you know the level

I started letting my players roll arcana/religion checks to see if they could figure out what spell level it is.

I'm not very generous, i'll tell them the level of the spell but i only tell them what the spell is if I decide they are familiar with it for one reason or another. A high arcana skill (no a roll, it is just based on their mod), will get them the spell school.

Nothing like your NPC caster's 9th level spell getting counterspelled.

The way the PHB text reads is you can counterspell a counterspell if you have your reaction, even during your turn. That is how an NPC gets their spells through, though some folks may whine that it lets them bring the might of their spell stack to play.

Note: I suspect that when a DM declares the targets and effects of (or asks for saves for) the spell, most DMs will let you counter the spell at that point.

FAAAR too late in my game, The window to counter IMO is while the Verbal, Somatic & Material components components are being put into play.

 

[DaveDash]

For what it is worth, Mearls feels the counterer knows the level


Word from Wotc on a web article and from the way the PHB text reads is you can counterspell a counterspell if you have your reaction, even during your turn. That is how an NPC gets their spells through, though some folks may whine that it lets them bring the might of their spell stack to play.

Yup counterspelling counterspells happens quite frequently in my high level game, but I am facing a Bard & Wizard (so counterspelling the counterspellers counterspell), and also if the NPC caster pops shield, they can't counterspell (no reaction).

 

[Scorpio616]

Yup counterspelling counterspells happens quite frequently in my high level game, but I am facing a Bard & Wizard (so counterspelling the counterspellers counterspell), and also if the NPC caster pops shield, they can't counterspell (no reaction).

Then it sounds like you need more spellcasters in your monster palette. Eternal Flame Priest in the recent Adventure/ campaign is a nice start.

 

[KarinsDad]

Word from Wotc on a web article and from the way the PHB text reads is you can counterspell a counterspell if you have your reaction, even during your turn.

Unlikely. Since it is the player's turn, the character casting the spell is the PC. Hence, in order to counterspell a counterspell, the NPC opponent would have to be counterspelling a cantrip of the PC since the PC cannot cast two spells in a single round (unless one is a cantrip). Would you really waste a counterspell to prevent an NPC from counterspelling a cantrip?

That is how an NPC gets their spells through, though some folks may whine that it lets them bring the might of their spell stack to play.

Not possible this way. The NPCs are also (shy of a special ability) limited to a single spell plus a cantrip during their turn.

FAAAR too late in my game, The window to counter IMO is while the Verbal, Somatic & Material components components are being put into play.

Really?

You actually have a "Verbal, Somatic & Material components" window of time in your game?

How does that work?

DM: "NPC 3 is casting a spell." half breath pause "Ok, since nobody counterspelled, this is what happens."

This seems a bit repetitive to actually have a "Verbal, Somatic & Material components" window of time in your game.

 

[DaveDash]

Unlikely. Since it is the player's turn, the character casting the spell is the PC. Hence, in order to counterspell a counterspell, the NPC opponent would have to be counterspelling a cantrip of the PC since the PC cannot cast two spells in a single round (unless one is a cantrip). Would you really waste a counterspell to prevent an NPC from counterspelling a cantrip?

There's nothing in the rules AFAIK that state you can't cast two spells in one turn.

What you're thinking of is the bonus action rule. If you cast a spell as a bonus action, then your standard action spell must be a cantrip. Reactions are not part of that rule because they're not bonus actions.

 

[Paraxis]

Unlikely. Since it is the player's turn, the character casting the spell is the PC. Hence, in order to counterspell a counterspell, the NPC opponent would have to be counterspelling a cantrip of the PC since the PC cannot cast two spells in a single round (unless one is a cantrip). Would you really waste a counterspell to prevent an NPC from counterspelling a cantrip?

That is not correct.

The only limitation on the amount of spellcasting is bonus action spells.

So caster uses action to cast fireball, npc uses reaction to cast counterspell, pc caster uses his reaction to cast counterspell, no bonus action spells were cast at all in the above example.

 

[KarinsDad]

There's nothing in the rules AFAIK that state you can't cast two spells in one turn.

What you're thinking of is the bonus action rule. If you cast a spell as a bonus action, then your standard action spell must be a cantrip. Reactions are not part of that rule because they're not bonus actions.

Got it.

So if you cast a Bonus action spell and a foe counterspells it, you cannot counterspell his counterspell because you cannot cast another spell with a bonus action spell.

But if you cast a normal Action spell and a foe counterspells it, you can counterspell his counterspell because reaction spells do not have that limitation.


However, if a caster has something in his hand which cannot be used with somatic components (i.e. something other than an arcane focus) and the original spell he casts has a somatic component, he cannot counterspell a counterspelll because he does not have an extra hand free to cast Counterspell (his one hand has something in it and the other hand is in use casting the original spell).