Constructing Constructs

[BlackSeed_Vash]

Can anyone explain to me the character level requirement for making constructs? I of course understand the need to be able to cast the appropriate spells.
Also, I didn't see anything preventing a person from using the proper scrolls in place of the actual spells. Is this part of why you have to be a minimum level.

The only reason I can personally think of is that a player with all the proper feats and spells (and/or scrolls) could between 10th and 11th could spend approx. half their wealth to create a Nimblewright [MM2; 35,000gp and 1,600 XP; 18th lvl and able to cast the acrcane spells geas/quest, haste, limited wish and polymorph any object]. Now the Nimblewright is an intelligent construct with a CR of 7 and being able to make one per party member could cause some problems, but nothing a good DM couldn't handle.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Also, I didn't see anything preventing a person from using the proper scrolls in place of the actual spells.

Nothing at all, but it could get incredibly expensive:
A spell prerequisite may be provided by a character who has prepared the spell (or who knows the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard), or through the use of a spell completion or spell trigger magic item or a spell-like ability that produces the desired spell effect. For each day that passes in the creation process, the creator must expend one spell completion item or one charge from a spell trigger item if either of those objects is used to supply a prerequisite.

So let's say you're an 8th level wizard with the Craft Construct feat, and you want to create a Flesh Golem. You can cast Animate Dead and Bull's Strength, but not Limited Wish or Geas/Quest. It will take 20 days to construct, and cost you 10000gp in materials (plus the 500 in unguents etc). However, you will also need twenty scrolls of Limited Wish (3775gp each), and twenty scrolls of Geas (1650gp each).

So the total cost will be 10500gp, plus 108500gp worth of scrolls.

-Hyp.

 

[Iku Rex]

I don't remember how item creation with scrolls work (if at all), but you need to have a look at the 3.5 update booklet.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20030718a

Nimblewright: Construct; 5 ft./5 ft.; Balance +9, Jump +19, Tumble
+22; Combat ExpertiseB, Combat ReflexesB, Dodge, Improved Disarm,
Mobility, Spring Attack; LA +6; Gains 20 bonus hit points (change to
Construct type); HD become 10d10+20 (75 hp). Change rapier-hand
damage to 2d6+4/15–20, and adjust Augmented Criticals entry accordingly.
Caster Level: 18th; Prerequisites: Craft Construct, geas/quest,
haste, limited wish, and polymorph any object; Market Price: 22,000 gp;
Cost to Create: 18,500 gp (including 7,500 for the body) + 580 XP.

 

[pawsplay]

Also, you need to qualify for the Construct feat in the first place.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I don't remember how item creation with scrolls work (if at all), but you need to have a look at the 3.5 update booklet.

So there's no longer a CL 18 requirement for the Nimblewright, but the 11th level creator would need 22 scrolls each of Limited Wish and Polymorph Any Object...

Expensive

Also, you need to qualify for the Construct feat in the first place.

A wizard can do it by 6th level, so it's not a real level handicap for someone shooting for it...

-Hyp.

 

[pawsplay]

No, it's not a handicap. but it is a lower limit.

 

[BlackSeed_Vash]

Well I'm happy to know that the level requirement is no longer an issue. I must admit I had completely forgotten about the number and cost of the scrolls that could be required. I was basing the question more on the hypathetical than an actual attempt to generate such a character. Though, now that I think of it, a Warlock would have the advantage in this department, assuming he was built with the intention of creating magical items and such. He would also fit into my 11-12 lvl wealth limitation.

 

[Kerrick]

So there's no longer a CL 18 requirement for the Nimblewright...

Huh? It's right here:

Caster Level: 18th; Prerequisites: Craft Construct, geas/quest,
haste, limited wish, and polymorph any object; Market Price: 22,000 gp;
Cost to Create: 18,500 gp (including 7,500 for the body) + 580 XP.

And the Craft Construct feat says:

A creature with this feat can create any construct whose prerequisites it meets.

That pretty much says right out that you must be 18th caster level to make a nimblewright. You don't necessarily have to know the spells*, but you have to be able to cast them.

*Were'd you get that quote, anyway? It makes sense, but I can't find it anywhere.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Huh? It's right here:

No it's not

And the Craft Construct feat says:

Right. So what are the Prerequisites for the construct? Everything listed after "Prerequisites:". The Caster Level isn't.

That pretty much says right out that you must be 18th caster level to make a nimblewright.

No, it doesn't. It means that a randomly encountered Nimblewright generally has a CL of 18, but a creator might choose to set the caster level somewhere else...

Caster Level: The next item in a notational entry gives the caster level of the item, indicating its relative power. The caster level determines the item’s saving throw bonus, as well as range or other level-dependent aspects of the powers of the item (if variable). It also determines the level that must be contended with should the item come under the effect of a dispel magic spell or similar situation. This information is given in the form “CL x,” where “CL” is an abbreviation for caster level and “x” is an ordinal number representing the caster level itself.

For potions, scrolls, and wands, the creator can set the caster level of an item at any number high enough to cast the stored spell and not higher than her own caster level. For other magic items, the caster level is determined by the creator. The minimum caster level is that which is needed to meet the prerequisites given.

Now, arguably, this means that the minimum caster level should be 15, since that's the lowest level to cast Polymorph Any Object. But we already have the example of the Flesh Golem, usually encountered with a CL of 8, with a 7th level prerequisite spell, so even though the minimum caster level to cast Limited Wish is 13th, this doesn't seem to apply.

You don't necessarily have to know the spells*, but you have to be able to cast them.

*Were'd you get that quote, anyway? It makes sense, but I can't find it anywhere.

From the DMG, Magic Items chapter, under 'Prerequisites'.

-Hyp.