Constitution damage options?

[RUMBLETiGER]

I'm sure this has been discussed before, so anyone with a link would make this easy for the rest of us.
Based upon the idea developing in This Thread, what are viable options for a PC to deal CON damage upon an opponent that could ultimately result in lowering CON to zero?
Could you all list poisons, spells, attacks, level-dropping-negative-energy, etc. that might accomplish this? Combos of attacks and such. I know some abilities will not lower a stat below 1, however a combination of a "CON-lowering-to-1" followed by a "Deal-1-CON-damage" setup would work just as nicely.
I'm looking for things a PC of a fairly standard race, maybe with a template, could accomplish, so no need for exotic monster abilities unless a PC can creatively harness this.

EDIT: Listing options (poisons compiled from The Poison Handbook):
-Wounding Weapons (DMG) Thanks @Greenfield
-Mountain Tombstone Strike maneuver (More with Devoted Spirit Chaos stance) (ToB) Thanks @Empirate and @StreamOfTheSky
-Major Creation spell to make plant poisons
-Taxine poison
-Volcanic Gas (Sandstorm)
-Blue Whinnis (DMG)
-Bloodroot (DMG)
-Arsenic (DMG)
-Spotted Toadstool Venom (Player's Guide to Eberron)
-Sassone leaf residue (DMG)
-Sinmaker's Surprise (Manual of the Planes)
-Darklight Brew (DoTU)
-Black Lotus Extract (DMG)
-Greensickness (Dungeonscape, MMIII)
-Svakalor Venom (Dungeonscape)
-Coldrith Toxin (Arms & Equip.)
-The Poison, Cloudkill, and Prismatic (green layer) spells (Thanks [MENTION=35909]StreamOfTheSky[/MENTION])
-Swashbuckler level 19 Wounding Critical ability (Thanks @StreamOfTheSky )

 

[Greenfield]

When you talk about "1 Con point", Wounding weapons come to mind immediately.

 

[frankthedm]

Combos of attacks and such. I know some abilities will not lower a stat below 1, however a combination of a "CON-lowering-to-1" followed by a "Deal-1-CON-damage" setup would work just as nicely.

Why woulds that be the case? Almost anything with the 'can't drop the stat below one' is a continuous magical effect. Even if you damage the stat later, first effect can't force the stat below one.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

Why woulds that be the case? Almost anything with the 'can't drop the stat below one' is a continuous magical effect. Even if you damage the stat later, first effect can't force the stat below one.

Honestly I'm not sure, I haven't considered all the possibilities. But I'm thinking since you said "Almost anything..." means you haven't either. So there may be a combo out there in which this works.
Just asking to see if anyone already knows it.

 

[Greenfield]

This is when sequence of events becomes important. The "drain" effect that can't take it below 1 is a factor. So is the "damage" effect (poison, wounding, etc.).

The Drain won't retroactively lessen if you add Damage on top of it, will it? It isn't the effect forcing the stat below 1, after all, the Damage is.

Would you have the person spontaneously spring back to life when the spell ends and their CON returns to positive territory?

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

This is when sequence of events becomes important. The "drain" effect that can't take it below 1 is a factor. So is the "damage" effect (poison, wounding, etc.).

The Drain won't retroactively lessen if you add Damage on top of it, will it? It isn't the effect forcing the stat below 1, after all, the Damage is.

Would you have the person spontaneously spring back to life when the spell ends and their CON returns to positive territory?

My understanding is the Drain lowers your score to that number, for the duration. If you add damage on top of it, it affects your existing score as it stands in that moment, which, in the hypothetical case, has been lowered to 1 by the Drain.
I don't know of any ruling that would lead one to believe that Damage would affect your actual ability score as unmodified by the temporary ability drain. My understanding is 1(for right now, for whatever reason) minus 1= dead.

And so, my OP question remains, in a more concise form:
1. What are the methods usable by a PC to affect CON Damage and Drain?

An additional question is now:
2. Are there rules about mitigating temporary Ability Drain and Ability Damage in combination?

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

I agree with Frank, anything that lowers con but can't lower it below 1 should be applied at the end. The only way you take con to 0 is to hit the creature with enough attacks that sap con w/o the limitation of "not below 1."

So, that said...

1. The Poison, Cloudkill, and Prismatic (green layer) spells
2. Wounding weapon
3. Mountain Tombstone Strike
4. The high level Swashbuckler class feature to deal con damage on a crit
5. The Ninja in PF can attack con, but it requires their 20th level capstone class feature, so it's even less practical than the Swashbuckler idea... And it's a "not below 1" penalty that doesn't self-stack, on top of that.
[sblock]Hidden Master (Su)
At 20th level, a ninja becomes a true master of her art. She can, as a standard action, cast greater invisibility on herself. While invisible in this way, she cannot be detected by any means, and not even invisibility purge, see invisibility, and true seeing can reveal her. She uses her ninja level as her caster level for this ability. Using this ability consumes 3 ki points from her ki pool. In addition, whenever the ninja deals sneak attack damage, she can sacrifice additional damage dice to apply a penalty to one ability score of the target equal to the number of dice sacrificed for 1 minute. This penalty does not stack with itself and cannot reduce an ability score below 1.[/sblock]

All I can think of off the top of my head.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

I agree with Frank, anything that lowers con but can't lower it below 1 should be applied at the end. The only way you take con to 0 is to hit the creature with enough attacks that sap con w/o the limitation of "not below 1."

So, that said...

1. The Poison, Cloudkill, and Prismatic (green layer) spells
2. Wounding weapon
3. Mountain Tombstone Strike
4. The high level Swashbuckler class feature to deal con damage on a crit
5. The Ninja in PF can attack con, but it requires their 20th level capstone class feature, so it's even less practical than the Swashbuckler idea... And it's a "not below 1" penalty that doesn't self-stack, on top of that.
[sblock]Hidden Master (Su)
At 20th level, a ninja becomes a true master of her art. She can, as a standard action, cast greater invisibility on herself. While invisible in this way, she cannot be detected by any means, and not even invisibility purge, see invisibility, and true seeing can reveal her. She uses her ninja level as her caster level for this ability. Using this ability consumes 3 ki points from her ki pool. In addition, whenever the ninja deals sneak attack damage, she can sacrifice additional damage dice to apply a penalty to one ability score of the target equal to the number of dice sacrificed for 1 minute. This penalty does not stack with itself and cannot reduce an ability score below 1.[/sblock]

All I can think of off the top of my head.

Hm... so it doesn't matter then in what order the Drain/Damage has accrued, what your saying is (Ability Score - Ability Damage) - Ability reduction with no less than 1?

I'm Not thinking about a way to make a super-cheese single character that can slap tons of CON damage, I'm actually thinking if all party members contributed one CON damage attack in a round, they could drop a powerful enemy. Assuming no immunity to ability damage/poisons/etc. Rogue shoots a Black Lotus Extract dart, Cleric casts Poison, Wizard casts Cloudkill, Fighter swings a Wounding weapon, etc...

 

[Greenfield]

They're considering a Drain effect as if it were actively (and intelligently) suppressing the ability, rather than a simple drain with a limit.

Note that there's absolutely nothing in the spell or creature ability descriptions to support this view.

I'm going to do an ArrowHawk for a moment. Please forgive me...

In earlier editions, Harm reduced hit points to 0+1D4, no matter how many hit points you had.

This in no way prevented someone from then doing those last D4 of hit points, either by weapon or by spells like Cause Light Wounds (which is what the Inflict spells were called at the time).

If someone had suggested that the Harmed hit points somehow returned as additional damage was done, I think everyone at the table would have fallen on the floor laughing.

/Arrowhawk

You can't stack a spell with itself. The idea that you can't stack a Drain effect and a Damage effect, however, is, well, I'd like to know what you're smoking, and where I can get some.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

It's not drain, it's a penalty. Old Harm is a terrible analogy, it's nothing at all like durational penalty to hit points, it's an instantaneous reduction to 1d4.

And I don't smoke anything, perhaps you should consider quitting.