Cons to break the Vow feats

[mr.pink]

A character in one of my campaigns had become to powerful. he is a monk/cleric who took vow of poverty and then all the other vows pretty much, the comprehensive list looks like this:

• vow of poverty
• vow of non-violence
• vow of peace
• vow of chastity
• vow of obedience
• vow of purity

I think thats it, not sure.

I was thinking about sending in a conman character to get my player to commit several crimes for him. In the course of these crimes he would break some of his vows
Do you guys have any ideas for convincing someone to break one of the vows? Especially without them realizing they are doing it

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

I really hope this is a joke post...

 

[Starbuck_II]

A character in one of my campaigns had become to powerful. he is a monk/cleric who took vow of poverty and then all the other vows pretty much, the comprehensive list looks like this:

• vow of poverty
• vow of non-violence
• vow of peace
• vow of chastity
• vow of obedience
• vow of purity

I think thats it, not sure.

I was thinking about sending in a conman character to get my player to commit several crimes for him. In the course of these crimes he would break some of his vows
Do you guys have any ideas for convincing someone to break one of the vows? Especially without them realizing they are doing it

Can you explain how he is powerful? Non-Violence means he has to use non-lethal attacks/spell.
Are you saying he is hard to kill? Because he sounds kinda weak offensively.
Details please.

 

[mr.pink]

I really hope this is a joke post...

Sorry, No joke post. I suppose I should explain. My trouble player is a muchkin/powergamer/minmaxer who also happens to be one of my closest friends. He is in a group i started full of first time players, I asked him to tone down the powergaming and he claims he is. But nothing ever hits him. I let it go until a party member, rouge/slayer of domiel, mentioned to me how hindersome the Vow of Peace penalties to attack rolls were whenever he attacks things when they cant defend themselves, which we both agree is kind of his job. He also has been hit once in a 4 month campaign, which i feel is frankly broken.

Can you explain how he is powerful? Non-Violence means he has to use non-lethal attacks/spell.
Are you saying he is hard to kill? Because he sounds kinda weak offensively.
Details please.

As stated previously he cannot be hit. its a constant challenge to hit him whithout fudging, witch i hate. He also cast spells as a level 9 cleric(one below his level) he esspecially likes to dispel any caster due to his magic domain. he then forces people to fail at melee attacking him, then he disarms themm for crazy Aoo

 

[Runestar]

Then what about simply not attacking him and focusing on the other PCs?

VOP is actually a self-imposed nerf on a player (compared to what he could be achieving with typical magic gear), I don't see how this can possibly result in an overpowered PC. Simply having a high AC doesn't really count, IMO.

Ever heard of the term "Tortoise with a toothpick"?

 

[Ahnehnois]

I had to rework VoP when one of my PCs did a VoP monk, increasing the bonuses *substantially*. The character was quite impressive defensively (a halfling) but weak on attack. Seriously, how is this character such a problem in the first place? The Vow feats are mostly underpowered, VoP and Nonviolence/Peace being the only possible exceptions. If there's a problem, maybe it's not the vows. Are the other PCs well-equipped.

I did conclude my campaign by forcing the VoP monk to take an artifact dagger and slay the father of demons. There's an idea.

If you must go about vow-breaking, there are good plot ways to do it. Seduce the character with a succubus (chastity). Add a monstrously corrupt authority figure (obedience). etc.

In D&D, vows are made to be broken. Still, I wouldn't recommended it as a method of balancing the game.

 

[Aus_Snow]

Unfortunately, this strikes me as yet another case (in general, not for you in particular!) where the DM should've vetted available materials *before* starting play. It's oh so very much the better way.

That said, there are worse things than VoP. And the others are barely worth a feat slot, for the most part.

I would strongly suggest not going down the path of seriously nerfing - let alone outright removing! - that which you've evidently okayed up 'til now.

But if you wanted to tweak VoP slightly, I don't see that as being quite the same level of naff. ymmv.

Besides, Monk/Cleric? Ick. Not a 'true' powergamer's move, IMO.

 

[Dandu]

Sorry, No joke post. I suppose I should explain. My trouble player is a muchkin/powergamer/minmaxer

He's not very good at it.

Want to take him down a notch?

Have an NPC hand him an item, say two days worth of rations, to hold for a sec while he straightens something out.

He loses the benefits of Vow of Poverty immediately.

To fulfill your vow, you must not own or use an material possessions, with the following exceptions: You may carry and use ordinary (neither magic nor masterwork) simple weapons, usually just a quarterstaff that serves as a walking stick. You may wear simple clothes (usually just a homespun robe, possibly also including a hat and sandals) with no magic properties. You may carry enough food to sustain you for one day in a simple (nonmagic) sack or bag. You may carry and use a spell component pouch. You may not use any magic item of an sort, though you can benefit from magic items used on you behalf - you can drink a potion of cure serious wounds a friend gives you, receive a spell cast from a wand, scroll, or staff, or ride on your companion's ebony fly. You may not, however, borrow a cloak of resistance or any other magic item from a companion fit even a single round, nor may you yourself cast a spell from scroll, wand, or staff.

Be creative. Tossing a doorknob at him will cause him to fall if he catches it.

As stated previously he cannot be hit. its a constant challenge to hit him whithout fudging, witch i hate.

Magic Missile. First level Sorc/Wiz spell.

He also cast spells as a level 9 cleric(one below his level) he esspecially likes to dispel any caster due to his magic domain.

Ring of Counterspells, 4000 gp, DMG magic rings section.

he then forces people to fail at melee attacking him, then he disarms themm for crazy Aoo

Locked Gauntlet. 8 gp, PHB Arms and Equipment section.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Vow of Poverty is a weak feat ultimately.

The other vows are beyond pitiful.

He's wasted all of his feats. He could have actually gotten powerful things, like Improved Natural Attack (unarmed strike), or Divine Metamagic. Instead, he's drinking water through a strainer lest he accidentally kill a fly.

He committed the cardinal sin of being a caster without full caster level. I don't care how much Wis he's adding to AC. It wasn't worth the lost CL. Especially since by RAW, a monk's belt would give him that without the CL loss anyway. Oh right...he took VoP, so he can't abuse the plethora of broken magic items out there....my bad.

His brokenness is "high" AC (post it, please. I bet you I can easily create a character of the same ECL with similar AC without even trying hard, using level-appropriate gold) and being almost as good at dispelling as an actual full caster? Really?

The hilarity/sadness really comes into its own in that you're looking for ways to entrap the PC or trick him out of his paladinhood vows. Sorry, for some reason it reminds me of forcing a Paladin to fall. Crazy, huh? You do know that you CANNOT get those vow benefits back, right? And the feat is then a giant sucking whole of worthlessness. Any DM who thinks it's ok to go after a player like deserves to have his players walk out on the game in disgust.

So in conclusion...you actually were serious? Sorry, I need to roll a will save to disbelieve this thread.

 

[pawsplay]

VoP isn't weak so much as bad. It gives lots of bonuses that should not be so readily available, but then causes the character to not be very good at a number of common adventuring activities. Extreme VoP is just another form of an overly specialized character.

If you want him to get hit, send a pack of eight gnoll archers after him, who each have Rapid Shot. Assuming 24 attack rolls per round, he'll be hit, no question, about once per round. There are always hydras, too.

If you really want him to break his vows and be forced to roll up another character, it's not hard to do. Have his superior command him to administer antivenom to a dead woman so she can be resurrected. Then send him into battle against an elder evil that can damage everything within 100 miles for a small amount of damage and send it on a rampage; make sure it can only be defeated with deadly force, and preferably involving some kind of weapon.