D&D 5E Concentration spells in 5e

[DM-Rocco]

Wizard casts Wall of Force - surprise round
Wizard casts Suggestion - round one

Both are concentration effects. Is there any reason why you have to cancel the Wall of Force and not the Suggestion.
Even though the concentration would in that scenario end the Suggestion spell, the spell would still take effect wouldn't it, until the start of your next turn.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

The RAW are pretty unambiguous about this: Once a new concentration spell is cast any ongoing concentration spell stops. If you want the Wall of Force to last, either don’t cast Suggestion OR cast it after Suggestion.

Also there is no Surprise Round in 5e - Surprise is simply a state that a PC or NPC might be in for the first round of combat.

That said, if you wanted to home brew some way for the wizard to have two concentration spells going at once, go for it if that will be fun for your table.

 

[DM-Rocco]

I get that there is no "surprise" round, but thanks for the reminder. I was previously invisible so the DM let me cast the Wall of Force and then we rolled initiative.

Basically what I am asking is can I cast a spell be cast without actually concentrating on it for an "instant" effect?

Or in other words, with no intention of concentrating on the second spell can you opt to cast it as if it didn't have a concentration effect and just an instantaneous effect, thus not canceling the concentration of the first spell, in this cast the wall of force?

 

[Swarmkeeper]

PHB, P203

Casting another spell that requires concentration. You lose concentration on a spell if you cast another spell that requires concentration. You can't concentrate on two spells at once.

By RAW, there is no way to do what you... suggest.

 

[Phazonfish]

Furthermore, to my knowledge Suggestion has no effect that I would call "instantaneous".

 

[Esker]

I assume what you are going for is that you want Suggestion to apply for one round? There is no rule to remove concentration from a spell in exchanged for a reduced duration. You could, of course, work with your DM to homebrew something like that, but there's no particular reason to think that the result would be spells that would balance well.

Something like Suggestion would probably be OK, since Command exists and is not too far off from a single round Suggestion with no concentration, and thus the tradeoff for removing concentration is a huge difference in expected duration if they fail the save; but something like Hold Person (which even with concentration grants a save every round, and thus the expected duration is usually not much more than a round to begin with) would become a lot better value if you were allowed to cast it without concentration, as the decrease in expected duration is much tinier.

 

[abirdcall]

There is no effect 'pre concentration'.

The previous spell's effect ends before the new one starts. For example, Bane is a concentration spell, casting another concentration spell would end Bane before any saving throws are made.

When you decide to use your action to cast Suggestion you stop concentrating on any spells.

As others have said there is both not a surprise round and no combat takes place 'outside of combat'. Rolling initiative is the first thing that is done.

 

[DM-Rocco]

There is no effect 'pre concentration'.

The previous spell's effect ends before the new one starts. For example, Bane is a concentration spell, casting another concentration spell would end Bane before any saving throws are made.

When you decide to use your action to cast Suggestion you stop concentrating on any spells.

As others have said there is both not a surprise round and no combat takes place 'outside of combat'. Rolling initiative is the first thing that is done.

Well, I understand what you are saying, but I cast a spell and the DM ruled that it went off and then we rolled initiative so it doesn't matter what the RAW is regarding that.

 

[DM-Rocco]

I assume what you are going for is that you want Suggestion to apply for one round? There is no rule to remove concentration from a spell in exchanged for a reduced duration. You could, of course, work with your DM to homebrew something like that, but there's no particular reason to think that the result would be spells that would balance well.

Something like Suggestion would probably be OK, since Command exists and is not too far off from a single round Suggestion with no concentration, and thus the tradeoff for removing concentration is a huge difference in expected duration if they fail the save; but something like Hold Person (which even with concentration grants a save every round, and thus the expected duration is usually not much more than a round to begin with) would become a lot better value if you were allowed to cast it without concentration, as the decrease in expected duration is much tinier.

Hmm, sucks the 5e team didn't directly think of this.

Okay, how does this sound for a house rule?

When you cast a concentration spell while already engaged in concentrating on a spell you choose which spell to maintain concentration on. The other spell lasts until the beginning of your next turn.

or

You may cast a concentration spell with a 1 round duration instead of a duration of concentration.

Thoughts?

 

[Esker]

Hmm, sucks the 5e team didn't directly think of this.

Okay, how does this sound for a house rule?

When you cast a concentration spell while already engaged in concentrating on a spell you choose which spell to maintain concentration on. The other spell lasts until the beginning of your next turn.

or

You may cast a concentration spell with a 1 round duration instead of a duration of concentration.

Thoughts?

That's more or less what I was envisioning. Messing with concentration is playing with fire, balance-wise, so if it were me I would say let's address it on a case-by-case basis, rather than implementing a blanket house rule like that. But my gut says it wouldn't open up anything wildly overpowered.