Command Undead....overpowered?

[Stalker0]

My DM has just been looking at this spell and thinks it might be a bit overpowered so I thought I'd see what the consensus was.

The big thing about it is that for mindless undead it has no save...and while that's no big deal for skeletons and zombies you could start command some stronger ones, and it lasts so long you could collect a large number.

What do you all think?

 

[Asmor]

How many mindless undead are there that would qualify as powerful?

 

[RigaMortus2]

My DM has just been looking at this spell and thinks it might be a bit overpowered so I thought I'd see what the consensus was.

The big thing about it is that for mindless undead it has no save...and while that's no big deal for skeletons and zombies you could start command some stronger ones, and it lasts so long you could collect a large number.

What do you all think?

It's very situational... Once we used it on a Giant Skeleton with great effect. The thing is, like I said, it is situational. If the DM doesn't want you to use it on powerful undead, he doesn't have to throw that mindless colosal skeletal dragon at you

 

[ThirdWizard]

What I don't understand is why command undead is 2nd level and control undead is 7th level.

command:
1 day / level
1 creature, no HD limit
charm effect on intelligent undead, but can use Cha check to command them
nonintelligent undead get no saving throw, others Will negates
won't do suicidal orders

control:
1 minute / level
any number of undead up to 2 HD / level
complete control over undead
Will negates
will do suicidal orders

Sure, okay, maybe, possibly, somehow, control undead is better. Is it 5 levels better though???

 

[Ciaran]

Sure, okay, maybe, possibly, somehow, control undead is better. Is it 5 levels better though???

It's like the difference between charm person and dominate person, but unlike dominate person, control undead is able to affect multiple targets. 5 levels sounds about right.

 

[GwydapLlew]

Sure, okay, maybe, possibly, somehow, control undead is better. Is it 5 levels better though???

How much better is dominate over charm? The two spells are equivalent in power to control and command.

Edit: Beaten to the punch! That'll teach me to post at work!

 

[Wolfwood2]

It's like the difference between charm person and dominate person, but unlike dominate person, control undead is able to affect multiple targets. 5 levels sounds about right.

I might up the duration to a day/level instead of a minute/level, though.

I mean... seventh level. That should be pretty powerful.

 

[ThirdWizard]

It's like the difference between charm person and dominate person, but unlike dominate person, control undead is able to affect multiple targets. 5 levels sounds about right.

Not quite.

charm person to dominate person:
1st level to 5th level (4 level difference)
1 hour / level to 1 day / level (increased duration)
Will save to Will save (always get a will save)
charm effect to dominate effect (increased control)

command undead to control undead
2nd level to 7th level (5 level difference)
1 day / level to 1 min / level (decreased duration)
Will save or no save to Will save (possible no save to Will save)
charm or domination effect to domination effect (increased control)

control undead should get the 1 day/level duration, the will save clause, and be 6th level, otherwise, command undead is often a far better option than control undead, due to the lack of a saving throw. Because of the HD limit, I don't think the multiple creatures clause for control undead is much of a benefit.

 

[Evilhalfling]

The 17th level lich who rolled a 1 on his save, in my game Saturday night certainly thinks its overpowered.
It was from a scroll, cast with UMD by the parties bard. For an oncore he tried Charm Monster on a Shadow dragon Wyrm. (this was less sucessful)

 

[Ciaran]

On the other hand, it bypasses the usual undead immunities to mind-affecting spells and to death effects. The ability to compel a lich to reveal the location of its phylactery is priceless.