Cleric: Social Outcast or Village Priest?

[Remathilis]

How do you view spellcasting clerics in your game?

the D&D default is that they ARE the de-facto religious institution. High priests are high-level clerics, and almost every thorp, town or hamlet has a village priest of 1st level or higher. They are so common; you can buy spells and magic items from them.

However, what if they weren't so "intigrated" into society?

My idea: Clerics are all members of mystical sects of a religion, far removed from the normal sect. This could be akin to the religious knighthoods like the Templars. Secretive by nature, they serve as ministers of the faith, but the miracles they work make them unpopular with a very un-spellcasting high church (probably made of experts). The church could be cool with these priests with the benefit of divine grace or outright hostile. Perhaps there are witchhunts against these "heathens", perhaps they are excommunicated and must act according to thier faith, but without the safety of their church.

This would cast clerics out of the "village priest" role and place them as social outcasts, miracle workers, and prophets. While some people would welcome them and the succor thier spells can provide, others fear and hate them for thier supernatural powers and unique connection with the divine.

Certainly, this would be a radical change from the cleric as presented, as well as the nature of the divine, the role of magic, and probably polytheism. What do you think though? Could it work in D&D and what would you do to change/adapt it?

 

[RobotRobotI]

Why would a church deny someone who is obviously gifted by divinity? "We worship X, but we shun those he favors." ?

 

[Drowbane]

I like the idea that Divine Casters are fairly rare. That the common priest of X is simply an Expert with appropriate skills. That common priests are simply mortal men, either devote to thier religion or con-men tricking the populace.

I also like Arcane Casters to be abit more common than Divine Casters, but thier magic is viewed as tainted. And because they're tainted, Divine Casters have to be careful not to find themselves getting staked.

Why would a church deny someone who is obviously gifted by divinity? "We worship X, but we shun those he favors." ?

At risk of turning this into a religous debate (Disclaimer!!: I'm not trying to smack down anybody's beliefs, so keep the thread on topic...) think about what supposedly happened to Jesus some two thousand years ago. If the bible is to be believed, here is a man claiming to be the Son of God, who can prove it with Divine Miracles. How did the people in power react?

Imagine you're the Grand Pope for your church. You live in a world with magic, but magic tends to be tricks of the Dark One (arcane magic is more common than Divine).

Some yahoo comes around claiming to be a Favored Servant of your God (you're the fricking POPE!) and can perform magic tricks in his name... "Divine Miracles" he calls them. What do you do? Believe him and exalt his name to the masses, revealing that the Grand Pope is just a silly title... or do you have him seized, imprisoned, and then publicly executed to preserve your good name?

 

[Psion]

I sort of see clerics as the organized clergy, given the apparrent uniformity of their training (all of them seem to train in heavy armor...).

Village mystics... if they worship traditional deities (many of them praise a whole pantheon vice a specific deity... a more historical-inspired take than the D&D view of clerics), I could see favored souls filling that slot. If they follow more traditional folk figures, I'd be using Green Ronin's shaman.

 

[Aaron L]

Clerics in my world are militant mystic knights of the church. Only one religion has clerics. The main priesthood is experts, with a few adepts, and is lead by a small number of archivicts.

 

[Andor]

I could see that happeneing, as long as no cleric ever reached high level. As soon as one got powerful enough to start messing with weather, earthquakes, and gateing in angels, the whole applecart gets upset.

 

[Turanil]

Certainly, this would be a radical change from the cleric as presented, as well as the nature of the divine, the role of magic, and probably polytheism. What do you think though? Could it work in D&D and what would you do to change/adapt it?

I like the idea. However, I think it requires a different setting than the regular D&D assumption about gods and the divine. First, I see this better in a low-magic setting where all spellcasters and magic items would be rare. Then, religion could be like Christian faith in the middle-ages, where the Church was corrupted (simony, etc.) despite professing love and humility. So, lets suppose a monotheistic faith where God impart spells upon his devout servants, but otherwise don't intervene in the mortals' freedom of choice. The Church could be corrupted, or just become ignorant of true spirituality, and thus priests wouldn't get magic anymore, except for a sect of mystics who could be viewed with suspicion by the jealous corrupted priests.

 

[Sarellion]

There are some examples of persecution of the more mystic branches of a religion by the established religous authorities but that would probably go too far into RL politics to elaborate.

The miracles can be ridiculed, the established religion could accuse the clerics to be heretics who traffic with evil spirits. The authority could accuse the clerics that their dabbling into the divine actually breaks divine law and that they cross a border they shouldn´t have.

Something like that.

 

[Tonguez]

IMC Clerics are integrated into the hierarchy as low status Templars 'Knights of the Temple' specifically trained to serve and defend their respective temples from the machinations of its enemies both natural and unworldly.

Most priest will either be Experts and Adepts (don't forget adepts). A few 'Prophets' will be of my homebrew priest class.

That being said I like the idea of Clerics being outsiders and one character I played was a Half-Giant Cleric 'Inquisitor' (dedicated to the god of Justice). After a series of joint Imperial-Prelatine decrees declaring the Emperor the new Prelate in accordance with the 'declarations of the Holy Mother' my character came to the conclusion that the Holy Mother (an ascended mortal who had become the wife of the High God) was either corrupt or insane and it was his duty to rectify the situation be restoring the 'old church'.

So the character was a pious godly cleric who just happened to be anti-reformist and as an Inqusitor ready to fight 'his' Church and the 'Rightful Emperor' for what he beleived. - eventually when the anti-reformist were quasxhed he went into exile ...

 

[Ed_Laprade]

The key word for doing this, as others have said, is rarity. If there are a lot of them, than it goes something like this:

"You, peasant, give me 10% of everything you own, or ever will own!" Says the greedy, obviously corrupt priest.

"Why should I? You've never done anything for me but tell me what I can't do... which are mostly things I want to do. Whereas this other guy has saved my child and killed the monster that was terrorizing the village." He replies.

"Because it's the god's will! And you'll be excommunicated if you don't!" The priest growls, advancing menacingly on the poor peasant.

"Now just a minute there, and I'll call one of the god's angels here to settle the matter once and for all." Says the cleric in full mail, holding his mace on high.