Classic Fairy Tales or Legends Containing D&D monsters?

Staccat0

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I feel kind of odd that I have never read an old book containing a legend about a dragon or goblins. Do such things even exist? I assume they've been translated from old english or something right?

With giants we at least have Jack and the Bean Stalk and with vampires you have Dracula -- but otherwise the best I can come up with is either fromm semi-recent literary history. I imagine medievel Europe has SOMETHING I should be reading for inspiration right? Like, is there not a classic story about hobgoblins or whatever?
 

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Your definition of an old book and mine are pretty different. Jack and the Beanstalk is from the early 19th century, and Dracula is 1897. The account of David and Goliath is from about 1000 BC and significantly predates old Jack. Vampires, as we know them, are a fairly recent development, from the 18th and 19th centuries (though tales of blood-drinkers are much older than that).

To your actual question, Dragons are endemic to just about every continent and ancient culture, in one form or another. For stories well known to the English speaking world, I would point you to Beowulf (c. 8th to 11th century AD), the story of Sigurd (c. 10th - 11th century AD), and the story of St. George (3rd century AD). The Leviathan of the Book of Job might well qualify as a dragonish creature (c. 1500 BC or earlier) and John used the dragon symbolically of the devil c. AD 95 in the Book of Revelation. Many more could be added, but those are the ones just off the top of my head.

Goblins, in their present form, are of a more recent origin. Goblins were evil and malicious fey, unseelie if you will, as shown in Christina Rossetti's 19th century poem Goblin Market. George Macdonald with his 1872 Princess and the Goblin likely helped cement their shape and nature somewhat and of course then you have Tolkien's Lord of the Rings tying them in with orcs.

Contrarily, hobgoblins originally referred in the main to kindly fey, as the "hob" moniker implied a more affectionate tone. Brownies, for instance, were a type of Hob. Though the Puritans also used Hobgoblin of evil fey. Shakespeare calls Puck a hobgoblin in Midsummer's Night Dream.
 

You never read Cinderflumpf? Sleeping Beholder? The Boy who cried Werewolf? Maybe Puss in Boots of Speed? Snow Dwarf and the Seven Wights? The Froghemoth Prince?

Man, you had a sheltered childhood.
 

Your definition of an old book and mine are pretty different. Jack and the Beanstalk is from the early 19th century, and Dracula is 1897. The account of David and Goliath is from about 1000 BC and significantly predates old Jack. Vampires, as we know them, are a fairly recent development, from the 18th and 19th centuries (though tales of blood-drinkers are much older than that).
Sorry, I should have been more clear. I am looking for advice on the subject. I don't mean to make any claims to knowing anything about it. Sorry to bug you.

To your actual question, Dragons are endemic to just about every continent and ancient culture, in one form or another. For stories well known to the English speaking world, I would point you to Beowulf (c. 8th to 11th century AD), the story of Sigurd (c. 10th - 11th century AD), and the story of St. George (3rd century AD). The Leviathan of the Book of Job might well qualify as a dragonish creature (c. 1500 BC or earlier) and John used the dragon symbolically of the devil c. AD 95 in the Book of Revelation. Many more could be added, but those are the ones just off the top of my head.

Goblins, in their present form, are of a more recent origin. Goblins were evil and malicious fey, unseelie if you will, as shown in Christina Rossetti's 19th century poem Goblin Market. George Macdonald with his 1872 Princess and the Goblin likely helped cement their shape and nature somewhat and of course then you have Tolkien's Lord of the Rings tying them in with orcs.

Contrarily, hobgoblins originally referred in the main to kindly fey, as the "hob" moniker implied a more affectionate tone. Brownies, for instance, were a type of Hob. Though the Puritans also used Hobgoblin of evil fey. Shakespeare calls Puck a hobgoblin in Midsummer's Night Dream.
Thanks!
 

I feel kind of odd that I have never read an old book containing a legend about a dragon or goblins. Do such things even exist? I assume they've been translated from old english or something right?

I have a wealth of fairytale books in my bookcase, so I'll tell you what I know. There exist dozens of fairytale books, most of them modernized, with modern language, and modern versions of the tale. The most popular stories are reprinted again and again, and often adapted a lot. Many of the tales that we are all familiar with (thanks to Disney) are the altered versions of often much longer stories. A lot of fairytales have been toned down in their violence, or their message, over the years. There's been a lot of censorship, and now it is difficult to find the original version of any tale. The lesser known fairytales tend to be a lot more interesting in my opinion. They can sometimes be really bizarre.

Mystical creatures and monsters show up in countless fairytales, although animals (especially talking animals) are more common. Dragons are rare in fairytales, despite how well known a creature they are in folklore. Goblins appear occasionally, along with creatures such as trolls, elves and fairies, which are all over fairytales. And when I say "elves", I do not mean the modern Tolkien elves. The word "elf" originally refers to magical forest creatures, often very small, and similar to fairies/fey. D&D borrows heavily from both fairytales and Tolkien, as well as pop culture.


With giants we at least have Jack and the Bean Stalk and with vampires you have Dracula -- but otherwise the best I can come up with is either from semi-recent literary history. I imagine medievel Europe has SOMETHING I should be reading for inspiration right? Like, is there not a classic story about hobgoblins or whatever?

Goblins, giants, brownies, fairie
s, those are all common fairytale creatures. They show up in dozens of stories. Jack and the Bean Stalk is but one of many. Jack features in other tales as well, some of which also feature giants. The brave little tailor also runs into giants in one of his tales, and appears in several other tales as well, where he always tricks people in some clever way. Both are very similar stock characters.

Although it should be noted that fairytales often reuse the same name or stock character, for what might as well be an entirely different character. There's not a single connected universe between fairytales. But there are many tales that have giants in them.

I do not know many fairytales that feature a hobgoblin specifically. The creature in Rumpelstiltskin has sometimes be referred to as a hobgoblin, but in the original tale I think he's simply referred to as either a dwarf, or an ugly little man. In the Snow Queen there is mention of a hobgoblin, but I do not know if this is the original version of the tale.

Vampires are common in folklore and superstition, but not common in fairytales. Its bizarre just how many cultures on our planet have some sort of a vampire myth. If you are looking for a fairytale about a vampire though, you'll be very disappointed. There are few... perhaps even none.
 
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There's been a lot of censorship, and now it is difficult to find the original version of any tale.

I don't know that it's difficult, you just have to know where to look. Probably the best place to start would be Lang's Fairy Books (The Blue Fairy Book, The Red Fairy Book, etc). These twelve books were published between 1889 and 1910 and, while edited somewhat for children, do reflect the general gist of the originals. All of these are widely available though, and I got e-versions a couple years back from Amazon prime for free.

Likewise a decent unabridged copy of Grimm's will reflect the folktales they collected in the early 19th century. And the Brothers Grimm did not edit their content, instead encouraging parents to monitor what they kids were reading. Its worth noting that the collecting of Folktales didn't really start until the 19th century and that censorship of the tales for children began almost immediately. Its not a new phenomena. But you aren't going to find many collections predating the 19th century. Likewise, the use of fey in the stories is a bit eclectic and not at all consistent, as the tales were adapted from oral traditions, which changed from region to region.

If you are really interested in the subject of 19th century (and earlier) beliefs on the fey, I would direct you to the wonderful "An Encyclopedia of Fairies," by Katherine Briggs, published in 1976.

The word "elf" originally refers to magical forest creatures, often very small, and similar to fairies/fey.

I would quibble with the word "similar." "Exactly the same," would be closer to the mark. :) (And they didn't all live in the forests either.) While precise usage would vary from region to region, the elf of folklore was a fairy and the fairy was an elf. And sometimes a dwarf. The word has Scandinavian origins, and there were dark elves and light elves in that country, though the description varied from region to region. The huldre, for instance, had cow tails, while the Danes thought they were hollow from behind. In Scotland, they tended to use elf to refer to larger, human size fey, but in England, it was more common to call the smaller fairies, males in particular, elves.



Jack features in other tales as well, some of which also feature giants.

Better to say that the name, "Jack" appears in several stories, the characters are often quite different. Jack was a common diminutive of the name John, and John was a pretty common name, as it still is today.
 

I would quibble with the word "similar." "Exactly the same," would be closer to the mark. :) (And they didn't all live in the forests either.)

True. Elves were believed to live nearly everywhere, from the forest, to your garden, to even inside your own house. The meaning of the word elf tends to differ in various languages though. It doesn't always literally mean "fairy". Sometimes it referred to what D&D would probably call a sprite. It differs in various languages. In Dutch though, the word elf is the Dutch word for fairy. I'm not sure if it would be the same in old English or Irish.

Better to say that the name, "Jack" appears in several stories, the characters are often quite different. Jack was a common diminutive of the name John, and John was a pretty common name, as it still is today.

Not always though. There are plenty of cases where a tale has the titular character of Jack, and he is almost identical to the character described in other tales. But that makes it difficult to tell if both tales are talking about the same character. Probably not though. He was probably a stock character, a fairytale trope. One could say that the name 'Jack' was almost just as common in fairytales, as his role in those tales. Which is why you'll find characters named Jack, and brave little tailors in dozens of stories, who all behave pretty much the same.
 

True. Elves were believed to live nearly everywhere, from the forest, to your garden, to even inside your own house. The meaning of the word elf tends to differ in various languages though. It doesn't always literally mean "fairy". Sometimes it referred to what D&D would probably call a sprite. It differs in various languages. In Dutch though, the word elf is the Dutch word for fairy. I'm not sure if it would be the same in old English or Irish.

Urm, well, as, in folklore, sprite is just another name for a fairy, I am not sure that saying "elf does not always mean fairy, sometimes it means sprite," means exactly what you think it means.

Perhaps your problem is with the word fairy, which in English/Scottish folklore, is a catchall term.

I will quote the aforementioned Briggs,

Katherine Briggs said:
The word 'fairies' is late in origin.; the earlier noun is fays, which now has an archaic and rather affected sound. This is thought to be a broken-down form of Fatae. The classical three Fates were later multiplied into supernatural ladies who directed the destiny of men and attended childbirths. 'Fay-erie' was first a state of enchantment or glamour, and was only later used for the fayes who wielded those powers of illusion. The term 'fairy' now covers a large area, the Anglo-Saxon and Scandinavian elves, the Daoine Sidhe of the Highlands, the Tuatha de Danann of Ireland, the Tylwyth Teg of Wales, the Seelie Court and the Unseelie Court, the Wee Folk and Good Neighbors, and many others. The trooping fairies and the solitary fairies are included in it, the faires of human or more than human size, the three-foot fairies and the tiny fairies; the domestic fairies and those that are wild and alien to man; the subterranean fairies and the water fairies that haunt lochs, streams or the sea. The supernatural hags, monsters and bogies might be considered to belong to a different category, and there are, of course, fairy animals to be considered.

She has a bit more to say in her preface about the use of the word fairy, acknowledging that in some situations, fairy is a more specific word, but that in general usage, such as is common to folklore, it was a catchall.

So, in short - in folklore - dwarves, washing women, sprites, elves, hobgoblins, goblins, brownies, leprechauns, banshee, imps and many more are all fairies, or fey. Tales and theories concerning their origins and behaviors varied from place to place, but the words were, in most cases, quite interchangeable. For instance, see again Shakespeare calling Puck a hobgoblin.

Chambers, in Popular Rhymes of Scotland (1842), gives the following verse

Gin ye ca' me imp or elf,
I rede ye look weel to yourself;
Gin ye ca' me fairy,
I'll work ye muckle tarrie;
Gin guid neibour ye ca' me,
Then guid neigbour I will be;
But gin ye ca' me seelie wicht,
I'll be your freend baith day and nicht.

Note the interchangeable nature, even synonymous nature, of imp, elf, fairy, good neighbor, and seelie wicht (wight). Though Chamber's speaker obviously approved of seelie wicht and good neighbor far better than imp, elf or fairy.
 

While D&D used a lot of monsters from legends and fairy tales, swaths of monsters were created specifically for D&D. Though mixing up the tales with D&D critters could be interesting, who wouldn't want to read "Beauty and the Beholder"?
 

Though mixing up the tales with D&D critters could be interesting, who wouldn't want to read "Beauty and the Beholder"?

Well, as everyone knows, Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder. Since a Beholder's main Eye is anti-magic, this means that Beauty is Anti-Magic, which further implies that Magic is anti-Beauty. Since Magic is therefore Ugly, we now know why hags and other magical creatures are ugly and deformed, and must also conclude that any Beautiful magical creature is hiding its true nature to deceive us. Which implies that sprites, sylphs, nymphs, unicorns, elves, and other supposedly "beautiful" magic creatures are all inherently evil, and must be killed.

Support your local Orc pogrom, because Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder.
 

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