D&D 5E Clarification on Next basics (attack & damage rolls and bounded accuracy)

[Mercurius]

There was a bit of confusion in our session a few nights ago about attacks and damage, especially if the proficiency bonus applies to damage as well as attacks. After skimming the rules again, I'm fairly certain that it does NOT. Is that correct? So damage is never modified by level - just by ability modifier and weapon, or possibly some situation modifiers.

Secondly, with bounded accuracy, the only modifiers to attacks are: ability modifier + proficiency bonus + (possible) magic bonus. Is that correct?

So it seems that classes range in terms of total ability score increases over 20 levels, from 4 to 7 (I'm not crazy about this wide difference, but that's another matter). To break this down a bit, the highest a given ability score can be at 1st level is 19 (+4), at 10th level 22 (+6) and at 20th level 26 (+8), but that's the very upward limit. The proficiency bonus for those three ranges is +1/+3/+6.

Given that, let's say a 1st level character will not have a magic weapon, a 10th level character will have a +2 weapon, and a 20th level character a +3 weapon (which is the max, I believe, aside from artifacts).

Putting it all together, I've come up with the following maxes:

1st level: +5
10th level: +9 (or +11 with a +2 weapon)
20th level: +14 (or +17 with a +3 weapon)

Is that correct? Has anyone put together any charts? I can't remember the exact details for 4E, but that seems about 30-40% lower.

 

[Blackbrrd]

I am not mistaken, the cap for a PC stats is 20, so a +5 bonus.

 

[Jester David]

As mentioned, the maximum stat is 20.

Given that, let's say a 1st level character will not have a magic weapon, a 10th level character will have a +2 weapon, and a 20th level character a +3 weapon (which is the max, I believe, aside from artifacts).

Magic is not assumed, so it's very possible for a 10th level and 20th level character to have no magic or the same +1 weapon they had at low levels.

Assuming starting with a 17 and ability score boosts bumping your to-hit stat and no magic:
1st: +4
5th: +6
10th: +8
15th: +10
20th: +11

If you went human you could start with an 18 which would increase accuracy at 1st and 5th but it wouldn't change at 10+.

Compare this with 4e where you generally started with a 20, had a +2 proficiency for a +7 at 1st level. And at level 20, had a +4 sword a +14 plus half your level for a total of +24. Plus potential expertise feats.
So it starts at 57% but drops to 46%. So the numbers start lower and the disparity increases. Although, if you add a +1 sword around level 10 the percentage doesn't drop.

 

[Kobold Stew]

There was a bit of confusion in our session a few nights ago about attacks and damage, especially if the proficiency bonus applies to damage as well as attacks. After skimming the rules again, I'm fairly certain that it does NOT. Is that correct? So damage is never modified by level - just by ability modifier and weapon, or possibly some situation modifiers.

You are correct:

Weapon damage does not include proficiency bonus. It is weapon+ability(+specials)
Spell damage from cantrips (e.g. ray of frost, burning hands) do not get any bonuses to damage, just the dice (+specials, if any).

 

[Mercurius]

OK, thanks all. It seems like bounded accuracy is even more bounded than I thought! That's not a bad thing, although it will be interesting to see how the optimizers of the world handle this and if, when the rules come out, there will be other ways to optimize.

 

[Dausuul]

From what I can see, the highest bonus you can possibly get on a single attack roll is +42. You must be a 19th-level dwarf fighter/cleric/paladin. The exact mix of levels is up to you, but you must have the following:

• The Archery fighting style (+1 to ranged weapon attacks), granted by fighter 1.
• The Guided Strike channel divinity option (+10 to a single attack roll), granted by cleric 2 and the War domain.
• The Sacred Weapon channel divinity option (Charisma bonus to attack rolls for 1 minute), granted by paladin 3 and the Oath of Devotion.
• The ability to cast divine power (+4 to Strength-based attack rolls), granted by cleric 7 or paladin 13.

You also require the assistance of a cleric (to cast prayer on you, since you can't concentrate on two buffs at once) and the following magic items:

• Potion of heroism (+2 attack rolls)
• Ioun stone (pale green prism, +1 attack rolls)
• Dwarven thrower (+3 attack rolls and the thrown property, allowing you to use Strength on a ranged attack)
• Belt of storm giant strength (Strength becomes 29)

This is very hard to achieve in practice, since it requires a rare consumable, a very rare weapon, a legendary wondrous item, and an artifact, plus three classes, a 20 Charisma, two uses of Channel Divinity, and a couple of mid-level spells. Moreover, the effort is largely wasted since you hit everything on a 2 anyway. Practically speaking, the high end for PC attack bonuses is probably around 18-20, with some reasonably generous magic.

 

[Mercurius]

Practically speaking, the high end for PC attack bonuses is probably around 18-20, with some reasonably generous magic.

I'm wondering if that was intention - that the high end would be roughly similar to level.

 

[Rhenny]

I'm wondering if that was intention - that the high end would be roughly similar to level.

Interesting thought. This would certainly make it easier for a Dm to create on the fly NPCs. Unfortunately the bestiary indicates that monsters have about 1/2 the to hit score bonus as the PCs at this point. Maybe when WoTC noodles the numbers the monsters will end up more like the PCs at the higher levels.

 

[Li Shenron]

There was a bit of confusion in our session a few nights ago about attacks and damage, especially if the proficiency bonus applies to damage as well as attacks. After skimming the rules again, I'm fairly certain that it does NOT. Is that correct?

I think so.

Secondly, with bounded accuracy, the only modifiers to attacks are: ability modifier + proficiency bonus + (possible) magic bonus. Is that correct?

...

Putting it all together, I've come up with the following maxes:

1st level: +5
10th level: +9 (or +11 with a +2 weapon)
20th level: +14 (or +17 with a +3 weapon)

Currently, bonuses from different spells stack, so you can have multiple magic bonus if you can find spells that grant a bonus to attacks (probably later on...). It might not be an issue if those spells are truly rare, but otherwise technically there is no max (and I'd be more worried about spells than magic items since the latter always depend on the DM).

 

[Dausuul]

Currently, bonuses from different spells stack, so you can have multiple magic bonus if you can find spells that grant a bonus to attacks (probably later on...). It might not be an issue if those spells are truly rare, but otherwise technically there is no max (and I'd be more worried about spells than magic items since the latter always depend on the DM).

They've been quite careful to ensure that all buff spells are Concentration, which means you can only have one per spellcaster. It's no longer possible for a single cleric to layer on half a dozen buffs.