Charm do they notice ?

[Winternight]

HI,
If my wizkid charm person or somebody. Dominate Person Someone, do they know that they have been enchanted:

a) if they make their save?
b1) while beeing charmed ?
b2) while beeing dominated?
c) after the Spell wears off ?

I am preatty shure that b2 is no.
but the others ?

 

[kreynolds]

Huh?

 

[Winternight]

Huh?

Ok I try to precise that.

I am a wizard.
I cast charm person on a fighter. Does he KNOWS that they have been charmed?
If he succeds his save, does he know I have tried to charm him. Can he react on that?
If he doesn`t succed his save and reacts as I want (holds off the dragon for just some rounds). now the charm person[/I wears off. Does he know he didn't really wanted to fight the dragon?

 

[Tabarnak Smokeblower]

Do you know you've resisted a charm?
Not sure. You know you've resisted something, but it usually takes a spellcraft check to identify a spell, so I don't know why this situation should be any diffrent.

Do you realize it when you're under the influence of a charm?
Obviously not.

Do you realize it when you're under the influence of a domination?
I'd say yes. Your mind is free, it just can't control your body. Kind of like Hold Person.

Do you realize it when the charm wears off?
uhrghlflblb... Don't know what to say. I guess you notice that your former friend isn't really your friend anymore. After being charmed a couple of times, IMO, you kinda realize what's going on, especially if a wizard or cleric friend explains to you what happened. This does nothing to counter the charm while it's in effect.

TS

 

[Staffan]

As I understand it, someone who is charmed is not aware that he's charmed. For someone who's dominated, it's a moot point since he can't control his actions anyway.

If the target succeeds in his saving throw, all he know is that he was attacked by some kind of magic but fought off the effects. He doesn't necessarily know who attacked him or with what - though seeing someone wave his arms around and chant would tend to implicate that person, and a successful Spellcraft roll would let the target know what spell the caster was trying.

If you failed your save against a domination effect, you will remember being controlled - that's a far more direct control than charm. Remembering being charmed is a different issue, but I think you'll be able to figure out that something was odd - he chanted some, and then you thought he was your best buddy, but now you realize he's not. That's pretty fishy.

 

[AuraSeer]

I cast charm person on a fighter. Does he KNOWS that they have been charmed?

No. Assuming he saw you cast, he knows you have cast a spell on him, but because he's charmed he sees that in the most favorable way possible. You're his good friend, so of course you wouldn't cast any harmful spell on him, therefore whatever spell you cast must have been useful.

If your target has ranks in Spellcraft, and makes his check to identify the spell you cast, then he knows you cast charm person. Even in that case though, he sees you in the most favorable light. He knows he has been charmed, but he doesn't care, because you're his good friend and he thinks he'd feel the same way even if the spell were not there.

If he succeds his save, does he know I have tried to charm him. Can he react on that?

The fighter does not automatically know what you tried. He knows he resisted a magical effect; if he saw you cast, he probably assumes you're the one who tried to cast on him. He may be suspicious, but since he has no magical training, you can lie about what you were casting.

Again, anyone with Spellcraft who sees you cast (including the target) can make a Spellcraft check to identify your spell. If successful, they know you attempted a charm person. Even allies will probably be upset with you at that point.

If he doesn`t succed his save and reacts as I want (holds off the dragon for just some rounds). now the charm person wears off. Does he know he didn't really wanted to fight the dragon?

In most cases, yes. Presumably you're his enemy, or at best a stranger, so he wouldn't normally follow your orders. When the spell wears off, he'll wonder why he was feeling so friendly toward you. Only the stupidest characters would fail to realize you had used magical influence.

Someone who has been dominated definitely knows what happened, because that effect directly overrides their mind and personality. The spell does not remove the memory of having been controlled.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

For someone who's dominated, it's a moot point since he can't control his actions anyway.

He can fight back. If it's something he really doesn't like to do, he gets a new save, with a bonus even.

 

[LokiDR]

He can fight back. If it's something he really doesn't like to do, he gets a new save, with a bonus even.

Only if it is "against his nature". A dominated fighter who is commanded to kill his comrads is not going against his nature, he's fighting and that is what he is supposed to do.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Nonsense. Nature in this case refers to moral nature rather than ability. Otherwise, the restriction is largely meaningless.

It is against a good fighter's nature to murder his comrades. It's probably against any lawful character's nature to betray their allies. (Although depending upon the cause, LN or LE characters might well betray companions who weren't allies or friends). It's against any non-evil character's nature to rape anyone or to murder an innocent. Etc. Etc.

Only if it is "against his nature". A dominated fighter who is commanded to kill his comrads is not going against his nature, he's fighting and that is what he is supposed to do.

 

[Knowledge Sinkhole]

Nonsense. Nature in this case refers to moral nature rather than ability. Otherwise, the restriction is largely meaningless.

It is against a good fighter's nature to murder his comrades. It's probably against any lawful character's nature to betray their allies. (Although depending upon the cause, LN or LE characters might well betray companions who weren't allies or friends). It's against any non-evil character's nature to rape anyone or to murder an innocent. Etc. Etc.

Frankly, the wording of Dominate Person has always vexed me. Technically, ANYTHING you have the target do is "against their nature," as they would not be doing it had you not dominated them. Without a DM who is willing to go by the spirit of the spell rather than the wording, you're stucking giving them a new saving throw EVERY TIME you make them do something.