D&D 5E Changing Cantrips

[Strider1973]

Ok, I know that certain spell casting classes can change one of the spells they know when they get a new one. What about cantrips? According to the rules as written, could a cleric change for instance one of the cantrips she knows at the level in which she can learn a new one? I couldn't find any indication in the rules: I suppose not, but I want to be sure. Many thanks, happy life hand happy gaming,
S1973

 

[The Myopic Sniper]

If your DM allows it... I would.

 

[Mad_Jack]

See, the tricky bit here is that the last sentence of the text for those classes says "which must also be of a level for which you have spell slots"...

A strict reading of the rules says that you can only switch out spells for levels in which you have spell slots - cantrips don't have a level and don't use up your spell slots.
There's nothing in the rules text which specifically allows you to change your list of cantrips known...

On the other hand, if you're a DM running a home game I can't really think of any particular reason not to allow it if one of your players isn't happy with their original choices. (Particularly inasmuch as there have been a number of new cantrips released since the original launch of the game.)

 

[jaelis]

RAW you cannot. But I would allow it.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

I would allow it in the same way I would allow retroactively changing your race: it's not exactly kosher, but as long as your race hasn't played a big part in the game so far we can pretend that Vlad the Human has been a human all along and not a dwarf, in the interest of a player having a good time. Would be different if we'd had a whole storyline about Vlad's Dwarfiness--in that case I'd have to say, "Sorry, it's been well-established that he's definitely a dwarf. Retconning that would change too much."

From a rules perspective though it seems clear (at least to me) that you're not supposed to be allowed to change cantrips.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

Nope. Once you learn such simple magics, they have irreversibly taken up a spot in your soul prohibiting you from learning other such simple magics. While you might eventually learn every wizard's spell ever created, including the mighty wish, if you did not select mending in one of your few simple magic spots, such magic is forever beyond you.

...which is one of the biggest fails of 5e, IMO. They tried a more reasonable version of giving at-will cantrips without forbidding learning/preparing others back in an early playtest, but it must have been too complex, because it was dropped in the next packet.

I personally allow clerics and druids to prepare (using one of their spell preparations) additional cantrips, which they can then cast at-will like any other cantrip. I allow wizards to scribe additional cantrips into their spellbook and do the same thing. I allow bards and sorcerers to choose to replace a cantrip with another cantrip on level up instead of another spell. This is mostly to cure the insanity and allow occasional flexibility. In practice, it is going to be rare that you prepare another cantrip instead of a higher level spell, given the limited number of spells you can prepare, but it does mean that you can if you know you need it for some reason.

With those house rules, your permanently known cantrips then actually become how the rules describe them, "Repeated practice has fixed the spell in the caster’s mind and infused the caster with the magic needed to produce the effect over and over." It makes sense that you could only hold a certain amount of that permanent magic attached to well-practiced spells, and it even makes sense that you might not be able to change them, because you've burned them into your brain/soul through repeated use. But you can still use other such minor magics just like you can any other spell.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Nope. Once you learn such simple magics, they have irreversibly taken up a spot in your soul prohibiting you from learning other such simple magics. While you might eventually learn every wizard's spell ever created, including the mighty wish, if you did not select mending in one of your few simple magic spots, such magic is forever beyond you.

Not forever! You can always use Wish to duplicate the cantrips you don't know!

 

[Shiroiken]

The fail is the way WotC decided to view cantrips. Rather than being minor magics that take almost no mystical energy (i.e. no spell slots), they are instead "mastered" spells. There are two simple houserule fixes, depending on how you want to view them.

To keep the "mastered" spell mentality, you simply add Cantrip spells to the 1st level spells. You can prepare (or know) extra cantrips at the cost of spell slots (making most not worthwhile).

If you want to go down the "minor magic" mentality, you allow spellcasters to choose their prepared cantrips (prepared number = normally known). For known-spell type casters, you allow them to swap a Cantrip each level in addition to the one normally allotted.

 

[Capn Charlie]

The more I read this, the more I think that a wizard or cleric should be able to "set" (prepare, memorize, pray for, whatever) additional cantrips like they were any other spell, but cast them as cantrips. The trade-off in utility provided by infinite cast minor spells against preparing spells good enough to warrant a spell slot seems pretty fair.

 

[cbwjm]

Much like Sword of Spirit, I would all it if you can prepare spells then you can swap out your cantrips, with wizards being able to add more to their spellbook. For spells known casters, I'd happily allow them to change them around on level up.