D&D 5E Changing Archetypes (Rogue)

[Konstentyn]

Greetings all,

Recently started playing D&D again after many moons. We started 5ed with the Starter Set (a great product BTW) and are just now finishing up the starter adventure. We used the pre-gens to start and the player who took the rogue is itching to move from the thief archetype to the assassin. The characters are on the cusp of 5th level. What's the best way to handle this? Anyone had this happen?

I was thinking, for simplicities sake, either just swapping archetypes 1:1. Of course that negates the previous knowledge one would get from earlier levels of thief. Or start the assassin archetype at the newest level when switching over. Neither seem perfect.

I realize this might be covered somewhere in the rule books, but I'm just starting in on the Player's Handbook.

Thanks for your help.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

I'd personally have the character undergo a mystical ceremony with an assassins guild in between adventures. He needs to make a symbolic sacrifice of something he holds dear and kill someone who knows of his old lifestyle (this can be a former enemy if you have a good PC). Maybe drink the black blood of kali or something. Afterwards, his old thief skills fade from his memory, and the new assassin ones take it's place. If you havent seen this year's game of thrones, the bit with Arya and the faceless men assassin guild would be good inspiration.

Mechanics wise I'd just have him swap out the class features he's earned so far and roll with it.

 

[Pickles III]

Just change it, it's his character if he will be happier with a different build let him change.

If for some reason you need an in game justification Assassins are fluffed as masters of disguise.

 

[Konstentyn]

If you havent seen this year's game of thrones, the bit with Arya and the faceless men assassin guild would be good inspiration.

Mechanics wise I'd just have him swap out the class features he's earned so far and roll with it.

I like the GoT idea. That could lead down some interesting paths. Thanks!

 

[Li Shenron]

I was thinking, for simplicities sake, either just swapping archetypes 1:1.

Just do that.

Why worry? At 5th level, the Rogue has only gained one level worth of the Thief subclass' abilities, i.e. Fast Hands and Second Story Work.

Fast Hands allows to use a bonus actions (instead of a normal action) to do a few possible roguish actions. Second Story Work just lets you climb faster and jump longer. Has the PC done these often in the past? Well now it just uses the normal actions, and climbs and jumps as everybody else. I don't think you'll even notice much difference! None of this stuff hardly qualifies as something truly character-defining to me.

Ret-conning a character is something that I have generally allowed, even if it's not of my tastes (I don't do it with mine, if I make a mistake I just eat it and keep playing), and one of the very few things in RPG that I don't really care finding a narrative explanation for.

I am sorry that the books actually have rules for some classes retconning (e.g. changing previously known spells) because this makes it feel like everything that the book doesn't say you can change, cannot in fact be changed. I would have preferred the books said nothing, and a paragraph in the DMG talked about the issue so that a DM can consider retconning anything.

 

[Konstentyn]

Just do that.

Why worry? At 5th level, the Rogue has only gained one level worth of the Thief subclass' abilities, i.e. Fast Hands and Second Story Work.

Oh, no worries. I'm more than happy to let her switch. I just wanted to do it the cleanest way possible (i.e. that won't cause any issues).

We also pondered if multiclassing would fit the bill (ignoring that is explicitly says you need to change classes). This way she'd be 4th rouge/1st Assassin. We were just brainstorming ideas.

 

[Kobold Stew]

Welcome to the boards!

Absolutely, just allow the substitution. Especially since they were using pregens, but even if they weren't it's an easy switch to make, and it will make the player happy. On analogy with the other "retconning" abilities, the next time the part levels, allow any of them to make shifts to their characters based on PHB options -- once.

There should be no issues if it's an option available to everyone.

 

[Bupp]

I'm going through the same thing myself right now, and I'm just allowing the reskin without batting an eye, like that's what the character has always been. I can see the fun in doing in-game reasons for the change as well.

For my group it was a combination of brand new players, (new to RPG's), and me being new to 5e rules.

I had noticed that a couple players weren't 100% happy with their character, or more specifically playing their character as a different type.

Our life cleric has become a war cleric. He like to charge up in battle and fight melee, but was completely average at it. We haven't played with the new changes yet, but the player seems excited at his new abilities.

Our fighter had a home-brew variation on the battlemaster, and never uses their superiority dice, she always forgets about them, so we're probably going to change her to a champion, but haven't decided.

Our earth wizard (homebrew school) has been throwing around firebolt, fireball, scorching ray and chromatic orb most of the time. He's getting the biggest re-write and is becoming a sorcerer, but hasn't decided upon his sorcerous origin yet. He's interested in a few different homebrew subclasses right now.

So we're just trying to bring the mechanics more in line with how the characters are actually being played than anything else.

 

[Saeviomagy]

As a general rule, I allow complete character mechanic rewrites at any time, as long as the character stays more or less the same.

For instance I wouldn't allow a plate-wearing two-handed wielding paladin to switch to being a wizard without a significant amount of elapsed in-game time, plus some story justification. I might allow an instant switch if the story was that he's a master illusionist, and the entire previous character was a cunning ruse.

It's better for me as a DM if you don't want to kill off your character because he's not working out for you.