Chain Devil Control Chains Ability Question [my players stay out]

[Gregor]

Hey all,

I have a quick question about the Chain Devil in the MM:

A chain devil's full attack is [2 chains +10 melee (2d4+2/19–20)]. Now, the chain devil also has the ability to control up to 4 chains in the room with him.

From the 3.5 SRD:
Dancing Chains (Su): A chain devil’s most awesome attack is its ability to control up to four chains within 20 feet as a standard action, making the chains dance or move as it wishes. In addition, a chain devil can increase these chains’ length by up to 15 feet and cause them to sprout razor-edged barbs. These chains attack as effectively as the devil itself. If a chain is in another creature’s possession, the creature can attempt a DC 15 Will save to break the chain devil’s power over that chain. If the save is successful, the kyton cannot attempt to control that particular chain again for 24 hours or until the chain leaves the creature’s possession. The save DC is Charisma-based.

The "chains attack as effectively as the devil itself" line lends me to believe that the chain devil can make full attacks with all 4 chains? Or, is he still limited by his total number of attacks?

For a CR 6 creature, if he can indeed make a total of 8 attacks with spiked chains seems a bit overpowered. Has anyone used one of these creatures before and has it been uber tough?

My thanks!

 

[biorph]

From my interpretation, the title of the ability, dancing, really says it all. The chains dance and act indepentently of the devil but still at his command, so the BAB for the dancing chain is +10 and 2d4+2/19-20. Like a weapon with the Dancing enhancement.

I guess this would also mean that if the devil was buffed, the chains would also share the buff.

The ability isn't that strong unless you are in the creature's lair, where it would likely have chains all around it, in which case your party takes it chances going into a demon lair to start with. Or unless your party has alot of people who use spiked chains, in which case they opened themselves up to this kind of creature by their weapon choice.

 

[Vurt]

Controlling the chains is a standard action each round, so the chain devil can either full attack normally (without the controlled chains) or control them and use a move or move equivalent action as well. At least, that's how I read it.

Cheers,
Vurt

 

[Pielorinho]

I've used them recently IMC; a group of 5 PCs levels 10-11 faced off against two trios of chain demons, once in a lair and once outside a lair. The demons presented a medium-sized challenge to the group. Granted, I changed around some of their powers -- I gave them a hold-person-type spell that had a reflex save instead of a will save, for example (as magical chains bound the victim) -- but they were basically the same. Controlling the chains is a standard action, meaning they can attack either with the chains or with their normal attacks; their BAB is low enough that a group of 10th-level characters doesn't face too much challenge from the physical attacks.

Daniel

 

[Nightfall]

I agree with what's been said here, controlling the chains are independent weapons of the Chain devil. Thus it can attack as a standard action and then follow up with its own attacks. The chains don't gain the attack bonuses of the devil, but do have the dancing ability.