D&D 5E Carrion Crawler error?

[Tormyr]

Looking at the Carrion Crawler entry in the MM, It has a +8 to hit with its Tentacles attack. The normal to hit calculation would give it a +4, and its Bite attack is +4 to hit. Can anyone think why this would be +8, or should it be +4?

 

[Sacrosanct]

I don't think it's an error, and I would caution against trying to quantify all monster stats against a formula. I get that feedback from some of the monsters I've done as well, like "Your damage for that CR creature is a little low, it should be X-Z." And my answer is typically, "take the entire monster in context, not just a stat. It's damage might be a little low, but it has this other feature that helps offset it...."

In the CC's case, it used to have 8 tentacle attacks each round, to the higher +8 to hit reflects the fact that it's attacking with several tentacles, and not just one each round.

*Edit* Let me expand on this thought that a grain of salt must be taken when evaluating mechanical balance ala a formula for monsters. I'm sure there's someone out there who will say, "You need to have all monsters of a certain CR fit within clear parameters for stats in order to keep balance." Here is why I don't think that's a hard and fast rule, but only a general guideline. The only important thing CR should tell you is "this monster will be a challenge for PCs of a certain level range." That's it. Stats, like HP, attack bonuses, and damage should not be directly tied to CR in every case because often there are other factors that go into the only important question above.

For example, if you have a monster with a very slow movement or stationary aspect, it might have hp much higher than all other monsters of an equal CR to be able to answer the question with, "yes, this CR is a challenge for PCs level X-Y"

Or you might have a monster with lower than normal damage, but has an ability that causes HP loss over time to be able to answer the question with, "yes, this CR is a challenge for PCs level X-Y"

 

[Mistwell]

Looking at the Carrion Crawler entry in the MM, It has a +8 to hit with its Tentacles attack. The normal to hit calculation would give it a +4, and its Bite attack is +4 to hit. Can anyone think why this would be +8, or should it be +4?

Wow, that is way scarier than they were in the playtest documents (+8 vs +4 from the playtest). And the CR is actually LOWER now than the playtest (2 vs 3). The DC is higher (13 instead of 12), the damage is higher (tentacles used to do no damage, just poison), and the hit points higher (34 vs 51). That is a lot deadlier. Boy are my players lucky I didn't have that version when they found the crawlers

 

[Tormyr]

I don't think it's an error, and I would caution against trying to quantify all monster stats against a formula. I get that feedback from some of the monsters I've done as well, like "Your damage for that CR creature is a little low, it should be X-Z." And my answer is typically, "take the entire monster in context, not just a stat. It's damage might be a little low, but it has this other feature that helps offset it...."

In the CC's case, it used to have 8 tentacle attacks each round, to the higher +8 to hit reflects the fact that it's attacking with several tentacles, and not just one each round.

*Edit* Let me expand on this thought that a grain of salt must be taken when evaluating mechanical balance ala a formula for monsters. I'm sure there's someone out there who will say, "You need to have all monsters of a certain CR fit within clear parameters for stats in order to keep balance." Here is why I don't think that's a hard and fast rule, but only a general guideline. The only important thing CR should tell you is "this monster will be a challenge for PCs of a certain level range." That's it. Stats, like HP, attack bonuses, and damage should not be directly tied to CR in every case because often there are other factors that go into the only important question above.

For example, if you have a monster with a very slow movement or stationary aspect, it might have hp much higher than all other monsters of an equal CR to be able to answer the question with, "yes, this CR is a challenge for PCs level X-Y"

Or you might have a monster with lower than normal damage, but has an ability that causes HP loss over time to be able to answer the question with, "yes, this CR is a challenge for PCs level X-Y"

I was not thinking it was a balance issue, I just have not come across any other creature in the MM that has a to hit bonus that is not calculated by proficiency + Str or Dex ability modifier + magic item bonus. In this case, it would normally be proficiency (2) + strength (2) = +4 to hit.

Your insight into the 8 tentacle attacks of yore seems like it could be the answer though.

 

[Agamon]

Ah, I didn't notice the +8 to hit. Cool. I was rather disappointed that they weren't all that scary any more.

 

[Hrothgar Rannúlfr]

I think the +8 to hit is a nice touch at streamlining the 8 attacks into one. Of course, there's always the option of dropping it back to +4 and letting the crawler have eight attacks.

 

[Scorpio616]

I'm suspecting they were going to give the Carrion Crawker advantage on its tentacle attacks but just made it a flat bonus so it could still benefit from advantage on the attack roll.

Also gotta love how the Carrion Crawler's behavior description was apparently written before the "Save every round" decree was issued from on high for nearly all paralyzing abilities.

Once a victim goes rigid with paralysis, the carrion crawler wraps it with its tentacles and drags it away to a high ledge or isolated passageway, where it can be killed safely.

But thankfully the Multiattack entry gets it right, Paralyze and bite.

 

[Joe Liker]

The tentacles are not that big a threat as it is. The damage is tiny, and the save DC is pretty low.

If the attack bonus were any lower, the monster's main feature would almost never work at all.

 

[Grazzt]

Be interesting to see if this is errata (like the CR 23 monsters' XP values likely will be) or if it's by design.

 

[Rhenny]

In the playtest I noticed that the carrion crawler was a pushover. I'm glad they changed it. +8 is great.