Can you "feel" a major image?

[Grundle]

Ok all you illusionists out there... this question's for you.

Major Image:
The spell description indicates that it can create visual, sound, and temperature effects. Can this spell create something that will be "felt" or have an imagined physical presence? For example, suppose one is interacting with a major image of a wall (and fails his save). If he swings a club at the wall does he have the sensation of the club's movement being halted by the wall, or does he percieve an "etheral-like" wall through which the club passes was if it were thin air (which indeed it is)?

What is the intended implication of the line in the spell description that talks about making the image react appropriately when hit by an opponent?

If Major Image can't create illusory objects that can be "felt", is there an illusion spell that can?

 

[kreynolds]

Major image does not create illusions that can be "felt". It can simulate a small fire that appears to generate "heat", but that's the best you get. I'm not sure about illusion spells that create a "real" wall. You might as well use Iron Wall to create a "real wall".

 

[hong]

Ok all you illusionists out there... this question's for you.

Major Image:
The spell description indicates that it can create visual, sound, and temperature effects. Can this spell create something that will be "felt" or have an imagined physical presence? For example, suppose one is interacting with a major image of a wall (and fails his save). If he swings a club at the wall does he have the sensation of the club's movement being halted by the wall, or does he percieve an "etheral-like" wall through which the club passes was if it were thin air (which indeed it is)?

What is the intended implication of the line in the spell description that talks about making the image react appropriately when hit by an opponent?

It means that you can make the wall dodge the blow, so that the opponent doesn't feel his club going through it like it was thin air.

Naturally, this has its own problems. I suggest sticking to illusionary orcs and such.

 

[dcollins]

I basically have to disagree with the previous posters -- on the grounds that you do not automatically detect an illusion just because you touch it, or, to use the original example, swing a club through it.

PH p. 158, Saving Throws and Illusions: "For example, if a party encounters a section of illusory floor, the character in the lead would receive a saving throw... if she probed the floor... A successful saving throw against an illusion reveals it to be false... A failed saving throw indicates that a character fails to notice something is amiss."

So maybe you can't feel anything from illusionary walls and floors. But, you can nevertheless still be convinced that it's real even after trying to probe it (if the saving throw is failed).

 

[hong]

I basically have to disagree with the previous posters -- on the grounds that you do not automatically detect an illusion just because you touch it, or, to use the original example, swing a club through it.

PH p. 158, Saving Throws and Illusions: "For example, if a party encounters a section of illusory floor, the character in the lead would receive a saving throw... if she probed the floor... A successful saving throw against an illusion reveals it to be false... A failed saving throw indicates that a character fails to notice something is amiss."

So maybe you can't feel anything from illusionary walls and floors. But, you can nevertheless still be convinced that it's real even after trying to probe it (if the saving throw is failed).

Note the bit right after what you quoted: "A character faced with incontrovertible proof that an illusion isn't real needs no saving throw. A character who falls through a section of illusionary floor into a pit knows something is amiss, as does a character who spends a few rounds poking at the same illusion." I think swinging a club at a wall, and having it pass through, counts as "incontrovertible proof".

 

[Akunin]

I just got this mental image of a party of adventurers out to stop their nemesis, the Illusionist Most Vile.

Having found and entered his sanctum, they commence go completely buck-wild, pounding on the floor with stout lengths of chain, throwing furniture against the walls... All the while shouting "I *don't* believe in Wizard's Towers!"

 

[Plane Sailing]

Perhaps this would be a reason for the otherwise totally useless "Illusionary wall" spell? If you check it up, it seems to be a mind-bogglingly overpowered spell for its level </sarcasm>

 

[dcollins]

Note the bit right after what you quoted: "A character faced with incontrovertible proof that an illusion isn't real needs no saving throw. A character who falls through a section of illusionary floor into a pit knows something is amiss, as does a character who spends a few rounds poking at the same illusion." I think swinging a club at a wall, and having it pass through, counts as "incontrovertible proof".

If the two textbook cases are
(a) probing, which generates a saving throw, and
(b) personally falling through to the other side, which counts as "incontrovertible proof",

then I'd have have to judge that swinging a club at a wall most closely resembles case (a).

 

[kreynolds]

Makes sense, dcollins. Attacking the wall or floor won't cut it. Jumping through it will.

 

[Pielorinho]

Well, it depends. Remember that probing a floor for a few rounds will present incontrovertible proof that it's an illusion. I'm thinking that your will save is to prevent you from making perfunctory tapping motions, pulling the 10' pole back right when you think it ought to be hitting the floor, or simply not paying your full attention to what's going on. Especially if you're probing a long hallway, you may every now and then miss a connection with the floor as you tap along it; a Will save tells you that you should have made that last connection.

Swinging at a wall, however, is very different from probing at a floor. If you're swinging hard enough to matter, then a normal swing is either going to chip the wall a little bit (or even raise a dust cloud), or it's going to jar your club in your hand. I'd consider attacking an illusionary wall to constitute incontrovertible proof.

Daniel