Can I Build a Tank-Artificer or a Battlemind Item Craftsman?

[ourchair]

I've been playing 4E for nearly a year now, and I almost always play a defender. I've dabbled as a wizard before, but mostly in a context where mechanics and combat took a back seat to storytelling and the usage of feats and skill-based problem solving.

Now I'm looking to build a warforged artificer as part of a character concept of a non-corporeal intelligence housed in a metal suit, who lost his body after performing a horrible ritual that loosed great evil upon the world.

The thing is, I don't know how to go about building these things. I'm the guy who builds a Lvl 3 Dragonborn Fighter with a +11 base attack hit, so I keep thinking I must be doing something wrong when a Lvl 5 controller/leader has a +7 to +8 to hit.

Am I doing something wrong, or do controllers/leaders have naturally lower attack rolls to compensate for the AoE firepower of the former and the buffing power of the latter? Is an artificer with a melee orienation wielding a fullblade implement a feasible concept? Are battlemind/artificers spread too thin ability score-wise?

All these questions stem from the fact that I like to play characters who take a beating but I want to be able to reflect the character concept ("I cast a ritual once and it shot me in the face. Oh and I'm 500 years old.") in a mechanical way without compromising his optimization.

 

[Droogie128]

They have lower attack rolls because most of their attacks are implement attacks that don't target AC, so they're not getting their proficiency bonus to the attack. They target fort, reflex, and will. Those are typically lower than AC.

 

[Lord Ernie]

The thing is, I don't know how to go about building these things. I'm the guy who builds a Lvl 3 Dragonborn Fighter with a +11 base attack hit, so I keep thinking I must be doing something wrong when a Lvl 5 controller/leader has a +7 to +8 to hit.

Am I doing something wrong, or do controllers/leaders have naturally lower attack rolls to compensate for the AoE firepower of the former and the buffing power of the latter? Is an artificer with a melee orienation wielding a fullblade implement a feasible concept? Are battlemind/artificers spread too thin ability score-wise?

A few things to note here. First of all, most controllers and some leaders tend to target NADs (Non-AC Defenses), which are supposed to be about 2-3 points lower than AC, which is why you see the difference in attack bonus. Well, that, and weapon talent fighters are more accurate than most.

All these questions stem from the fact that I like to play characters who take a beating but I want to be able to reflect the character concept ("I cast a ritual once and it shot me in the face. Oh and I'm 500 years old.") in a mechanical way without compromising his optimization.

Well... Warforged can take quite a beating naturally (Warforged Resolve and +2 CON take care of that), and having con as a secondary stat should make even a pure-class Warforged Artificer plenty durable.

If you want to create a hybrid character, Swordmage|Artificer is an excellent hybrid combination if you like to mix a defender with a leader. Swordmages are some of the best hybrids as it is, because they lose so very little with hybriding. Add to that perfect stat synergy between the Shielding Swordmage and a Constitution Artificer, and you're golden.

I'm not too familiar with the Battlemind... alot would depend on how much they need their secondary stat, since you will need to keep both constitution and intelligence high if you want to hit with any of your attacks, which will leave your wisdom/charisma (the battlemind secondaries) pretty low. Also, I've heard that optimization-wise, psionic hybrids are kind of bad, since your power points depend on your power choices, and even then you don't get that many.

 

[knightofround]

The thing is, I don't know how to go about building these things. I'm the guy who builds a Lvl 3 Dragonborn Fighter with a +11 base attack hit, so I keep thinking I must be doing something wrong when a Lvl 5 controller/leader has a +7 to +8 to hit.

Am I doing something wrong, or do controllers/leaders have naturally lower attack rolls to compensate for the AoE firepower of the former and the buffing power of the latter? Is an artificer with a melee orienation wielding a fullblade implement a feasible concept? Are battlemind/artificers spread too thin ability score-wise?

Yup, you got it. It's normal for them to have lower attack rolls. This is to compensate for AoE, (artificers have a lot of controller-type powers compared to other leaders), being able to attack from range, and their support skills. Normally I would expect a defend to do more damage than a leader, and more damage than a controller in single target. (but the controller would blow them away in AoE damage)

You can certainly create a melee-based Artificer. Artificer powers fall into one of the following categorys: 1. buff placed on an ally's weapon or armor 2. create mechanical constructs that either have cool effects or do more damage than you...catch is, they can be destroyed, unlike summons. 3. close burst/blast implement attacks, which are usually controller-y. 4. ranged attacks.

You could make a melee Artificer that focused solely on the buffs (they are all melee 1 range) and the close burst/blast stuff. The problem is that those powers tend to be weaker than the others.

It would also suck up a lot of feats, because you'd lose 2 feats to full blade proficiency plus hide armor, 2 feats to get implement focus and weapon focus, and even then you would need to keep two weapons up-to-date each level (both melee and implement). There is an artificer feat that turns a crossbow into an implement, but maybe your GM will houserule it.

All these questions stem from the fact that I like to play characters who take a beating but I want to be able to reflect the character concept ("I cast a ritual once and it shot me in the face. Oh and I'm 500 years old.") in a mechanical way without compromising his optimization.

Another thing you could look at are Devas, reincarnated souls who vaguely remember past lifetimes.

Oh, another thing I'd point out is that anybody can be an item craftsman. All you need to do is pick up the ritual caster feat, and there's only two item creation rituals: brew potions and enchant magic. And you might want to pick up disenchant magic item too I guess. All those rituals are heroic tier.

The only way that artificers are better than other classes at crafting are 1. smaller component cost for disenchant, no big deal. 2. can resize for free, no big deal. 3. have access to feats that allows them to make items above their their level. (but honestly, with item prices in this edition its unlikely you'll be making stuff above your level unless your DM doubles treasure parcels across the board)

 

[bganon]

Yes, to second what some other people have said:

1. Melee Artificer is a perfectly good build, but
2. It sounds like maybe you'd like to play a "defender with rituals and magic items". In which case, you might be happier with a straight Battlemind, because rituals can picked up with feats, and if you're a warforged you can attach/embed items regardless of class.

Go Con/Wis/Int (in that order) Resilient Battlemind, and you'll be a super-tough defender who can do all the crafting you want with a feat, and still have enough Int to multiclass Artificer if you really want to pick up some utility powers or something. You can always refluff the psionics as a unique kind of magic (which isn't far from the truth anyway).

 

[Angellis_ater]

Arcane Implement Proficiency: Heavy Blades turns a fullblade into an implement for the Artificier. Weapon Expertise thus covers both and Weapon Focus adds damage over time. I'd say it would make for a pretty awesome build, although most feats would go towards "toughening up" and "melee-ifying" the character.

Start with AIP: HB and use a Greatsword from 1st level would be my suggestion.

 

[ourchair]

Thanks for schooling me on that. I had completely overlooked the NAD-targetting and to-hit difference that would make.

I'm not too familiar with the Battlemind... alot would depend on how much they need their secondary stat, since you will need to keep both constitution and intelligence high if you want to hit with any of your attacks, which will leave your wisdom/charisma (the battlemind secondaries) pretty low. Also, I've heard that optimization-wise, psionic hybrids are kind of bad, since your power points depend on your power choices, and even then you don't get that many.

I've absolutely decided that if Hybrid-ing becomes the path to go, I'm definitely not taking Battleminds, mostly because I don't want to get bogged down in managing power points AND infusions.

If I take Battlemind, I'm more likely to take Artificer MC feat and take the Master Crafter feat and leave it at that to represent the 'arcanist' background. That way, the character can still say, "In a past life I was an arcane engineer." It might even be the simplest route, because then I won't be burning feats to take powers, which will obviate the need to pump up a stat (INT) for their accuracy.

We rolled our stats and I got a 17, 16, 14, 13, 12 and an 8. If I have a to make my INT 13, for the Artificer MC thjen by Lvl 11 it becomes 14, and it'll be a decent modifier for my AC/Reflex, as I plan for the character to have DEX, reflecting the fact that he's in a heavy metal chamber-suit.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Single class battlemind with a little bit multiclassing could be ok. (You can always take the utility power swap feat and ritual caster to get some arcane utility)

Your bonus to stats will allow you to have a good attack stat and you wil fullfill your role (thanks to the updated shifting power) and your concept very well...

 

[Black Knight Irios]

Thanks for schooling me on that. I had completely overlooked the NAD-targetting and to-hit difference that would make.

I've absolutely decided that if Hybrid-ing becomes the path to go, I'm definitely not taking Battleminds, mostly because I don't want to get bogged down in managing power points AND infusions.

If I take Battlemind, I'm more likely to take Artificer MC feat and take the Master Crafter feat and leave it at that to represent the 'arcanist' background. That way, the character can still say, "In a past life I was an arcane engineer." It might even be the simplest route, because then I won't be burning feats to take powers, which will obviate the need to pump up a stat (INT) for their accuracy.

We rolled our stats and I got a 17, 16, 14, 13, 12 and an 8. If I have a to make my INT 13, for the Artificer MC thjen by Lvl 11 it becomes 14, and it'll be a decent modifier for my AC/Reflex, as I plan for the character to have DEX, reflecting the fact that he's in a heavy metal chamber-suit.

If you are interested in an defender and artificer at the same time and don't mind hybriding let me suggest a shielding swordmage | artificier.
Pros:
a) use your fullblade as an implement for all powers
b) both have INT primary and CON secondary
c) highly arcane
I suggest getting Hide armor prof. b/c you lose swordmage warding.

Warforged as race isn't that awesome combined with your rolled ability scores b/c having a post-racial 18 is "required" for a leader's attack ability score => miss == no buffs most of the time. But then again a 17 wouldn't be that bad.

If you like that approach I'd go with:
STR 12 + 2 race = 14
CON 16 + 2 race = 18
DEX 14
INT 17
WIS 13
CHA 8
Pushing INT/CON every time.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

sorry, 18 int is not required... it helps a lot, but is certainly not required!