Can a halfling use a bastard sword 2-handed?

[dragonmajesty]

Is it possible for a halfling fighter to wield a bastard sword
two-handed if he spends a feat on exotic weapon proficiency?

Normally if a weapon is one size category larger than a PC it can be used two-handed by the PC. For example a halfling (small) can use a longsword (medium) two-handed.

Now the bastard sword is also listed as medium size but it is considered an exotic weapon if a medium PC wields it one-handed. Thus a human (medium size) can use the bastard sword (medium)
two-handed without a feat. With a feat spent on exotic weapon proficiency he or she can use it one-handed.

So wouldn't it follow that a halfling (small size) could wield the bastard sword (medium size) two-handed as an exotic weapon (i.e. must spend a feat on exotic weapon proficiency)?


Thanks,
dragonmajesty

 

[KarinsDad]

I would allow it.

After all, a halfling can use a Heavy Lance two handed and it also weighs 10 pounds.

But, according to the rules, he cannot because the feat allows someone who can already use it two handed to use it one handed. It does not allow someone who cannot use it at all to use it two handed.

 

[dragonmajesty]

Originally posted by KarinsDad

the feat allows someone who can already use it two handed to use it one handed. It does not allow someone who cannot use it at all to use it two handed.

I don’t find this in the description of the bastard sword on p. 103 PHB or in the text of exotic weapon proficiency on p. 82 PHB.

But even if the text did state that a prequisiste of the exotic weapon proficiency feat to use the sword one-handed is the ability to use it two-handed it wouldn’t necessarily preclude a halfling that undergoes special training and spends a feat on exotic weapon proficiency (bastard sword) from using it two-handed. Such text would only prohibit a halfling from using the bastard sword one-handed.

 

[KarinsDad]

PHB page 103

"A Medium sized character can use a bastard sword two-handed as a martial weapon"

This implies that a small sized character cannot use it two handed at all.

PHB page 82

"Benefit: You make attack rolls with the weapon normally.
Normal: A character who uses a weapon without being proficient with it suffers a -4 penalty on attack rolls."

The halfling is not in the normal case. He cannot use the weapon at all. So, he cannot go from the normal case to the benefit case.

PHB page 103

"A bastard sword is too large to use in one hand without special training."

The wording here is real poor. The special training here can only mean the exotic weapon feat since there is no penalty for a medium sized character to use the bastard sword two handed (as per the first quote above).

So, this sentence allows the exotic weapon feat to be used to allow a medium sized character to use the weapon one handed (even though normally, he could not do this at all).

But, there is no sentence that says that a small sized character can use it two handed. The feat does not supply that.

 

[Ristamar]

There was a long, heated discussion about this on the WotC boards right after 3e was first released.

I'm 99.9% percent sure that a designer (likely Sean, or possibly Skip) chimed in and said that the Exotic Weapon proficiency was needed for a small character to wield a bastard sword with 2 hands, and that's the ruling my group has always followed.

IMO, it makes perfect sense. For small characters, it'd be silly to use any other 2 handed weapon (except during special circumstances) if the feat wasn't required.

 

[dragonmajesty]

PHB page 103

"A Medium sized character can use a bastard sword two-handed as a martial weapon"

This implies that a small sized character cannot use it two handed at all.

No that sentence does not imply your conclusion.

The exact text on p.103 PHB is as follows:

A bastard sword is too large to use in one hand without special training: thus, it is an exotic weapon. A Medium-size character can use a bastard sword two-handed as a martial weapon …

These two sentences together state that a medium-size character without special training can use it two-handed.

This means that a halfling without special training (a feat) cannot use it two-handed.


It states nothing about a halfling with special training (e.g. a feat).

PHB page 103

But, there is no sentence that says that a small sized character can use it two handed. The feat does not supply that.

True. But there is also no sentence that states a small PC cannot use it two-handed with special training (a feat).

The rules we've discussed so far, p.82, 103 PHB simply state nothing on this point. So I don't see the rules as written precluding it. It is simply up in the air.

 

[Ristamar]

From the DNDFAQ:

I have gotten the impression that a halfling can use a bastard sword as a two-handed weapon provided that she has a Strength score of 13 or better and she takes Exotic Weapon Proficiency (bastard sword). Correct?

There is no Strength requirement to use a bastard sword. A bastard sword is a Medium-Size weapon. It follows all the rules for Medium-Size weapons, except that a Medium-Size creature wielding the sword in one hand suffers a -4 attack penalty with it unless she has Exotic Weapon Proficiency (bastard sword). A Small creature using the sword in two hands is just like a Medium-Size creature wielding it in one hand. So, your halfling (or gnome) suffers a -4 attack penalty when using the sword two-handed and suffers no attack penalty if she has Exotic Weapon Proficiency (bastard sword) and uses two hands; because the sword is Medium-Size, a Small character cannot use it one-handed.

 

[Xahn'Tyr]

Nice catch Ristamar; that puts a very solid end to this debate (which I imagine was just starting to build up steam).

 

[IceBear]

Nice catch Ristamar; that puts a very solid end to this debate (which I imagine was just starting to build up steam).

Well, like many other threads that you would think would end with such a definitive answer from the Sage, I wouldn't count on it

IceBear

 

[KarinsDad]

Nice catch Ristamar; that puts a very solid end to this debate (which I imagine was just starting to build up steam).

Hardly.

The first two sentences of the description of bastard sword imply that a small sized creature cannot use it at all. It does not imply that he can use it with a weapon proficiency penalty.

The exotic weapon feat moves a weapon from non-proficient to proficient. It does not give the ability to use a weapon "larger" than what could be used.

The bastard sword is a special case of a weapon caught between medium and large. It is poorly worded. But, I cannot really think that a weapon that could not be used at all could suddenly be used with an exotic weapon feat unless the description of the weapon itself states so (which the bastard sword basically does with the words "special training" concerning it's one handed use by a medium sized character).

The bottom line of the discussion is whether a halfling can use a bastard sword two handed with a weapon proficiency penalty normally. If your answer is yes, then the exotic weapon feat would work. If not, it would not.